Homophobic Leicester fans

[attila]

It wasn't the sometimes heard half-hearted chant of 'does your boyfriend know you're here?' stilled by our customary sarky response. It was 20 minutes or so of sustained, vicious, homophobic abuse, which Leicester fans themselves have complained about extensively, since at least one of their number was subjected to it too. It most certainly couldn't be in any way described as 'banter' and was a throwback to years ago, the worst I've heard for ages: inciting violence and then some. Some Leicester idiots got thrown out at the time, assurances have been given that this is being taken very seriously and I think there will be more repercussions in the next few days http://www.skysports.com/football/n...fans-for-homophobic-chanting-against-brighton

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Because it's suggesting that there is a level of ugliness where someone can't possibly be gay. It works on the basis that most, if not all, gay men are "pretty boys." In itself the response is based on a stereotype. It's not difficult to see why it's ignorant!

There lies the difference in our opinion. You are offended by stereotyping whereas I am offended by offensiveness. My view is that you are overthinking a song that is designed to make the opposition think twice about their homophobic chanting whilst gently saying something positive about gay people. It is better to set boundaries of decency and not to keep ratcheting up the rhetoric of telling people what they can and can't say otherwise you risk turning people away from the actual point of making homophobia a taboo.

 

[whitelion]

The Kemptown village is known as the gay area of Brighton with St James' Street as the focal point.

What a lot if these residents of grim northern towns don't realise is that Brighton attracts their own gay residents as they are more accepted by the city. Therefore the gay population of Brighton are largely not born and bred here. There is no evidence to suggest that Brighton has anymore or less gay people born in the city.

 

[pastafarian]

With regard to the we can see you holding hands stuff, when a large number of Leicester sang this a very well known and vocal member of the Albion supporting community(who is against homophobia and campaigns against it) and who was sitting near me was giggling at the the song. Does this mean he/she recognises this is banter? Is he/she out of touch herself/himself?......And why was he/she sitting alone with two empty seats next to him/her at the end of row.?....loyalty point collectors?

 

[Bladders]

I tend to just go and watch the match , never taken much notice of what's being sung in one of the other stands .


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[Notters]

The Kemptown village is known as the gay area of Brighton with St James' Street as the focal point.

Sorry to distract from the important points being made in this thread but it's Kemp Town, not Kemptown. It's not a village; and St James's Street (not St James' Street) is not in Kemp Town!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

OK TB but the reference was in the context of police inaction, shameful as it may be......however there are plenty of other examples of police inaction. I highlighted two, and are they worse examples of police inaction or not? Be honest?

Perspective is very important in these debates.......where do we want police priority time (or should I say taxpayers money) spent.......if this is a serious crime that we want the police to purse vigorously then there is a quid pro quo.

It seems to me the Police are dealing with lots of issues and threats, where does homophobic chanting at football matches fit in their hierarchy of priorities?

The police are already using their time and resources by attending a football match. It also has to be done in conjunction with the relevant club and stewards. CCTV is widely available now so the clubs can pinpoint who starts the chants.
Fans have already been in court & banned from football. Two Leeds fans, three years ago, were in court in Brighton. CKR was convicted of homophobic gestures on the pitch. It's a start.

 

[whitelion]

Sorry to distract from the important points being made in this thread but it's Kemp Town, not Kemptown. It's not a village; and St James's Street (not St James' Street) is not in Kemp Town!

Important points [MENTION=1320]Notters[/MENTION] - it's usually me picking up other people's errors. Kemp Town is not village in the normal sense but it is described as such in tourist or estate agent blurb.

If St James's Street is not in Kemp Town where is it?

 

[fosters headband]

The police are already using their time and resources by attending a football match. It also has to be done in conjunction with the relevant club and stewards. CCTV is widely available now so the clubs can pinpoint who starts the chants.
Fans have already been in court & banned from football. Two Leeds fans, three years ago, were in court in Brighton. CKR was convicted of homophobic gestures on the pitch. It's a start.

Does CCTV come with sound now then, because if it did, the three Brighton fans would not be banned because it would have picked up the steward inciting the skirmish. All CCTV showed was the skirmish.

 

[BBassic]

We should sing something different when it crops up I think. Something like:

We're heard it before
We've heard it before
It's f**king boring
We've heard it before

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not sure that it is as simple as an issue of moral hierarchy. Just because the police have ignored certain offences for decades doesn't make it right that they do so. Social movements and pressure groups worked hard throughout the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s to shine a public light on the profound harm caused by 'invisible' offences (such as child abuse, sexual violence, domestic violence for example) - the pressure that they applied forced the police and criminal justice system to treat such offences with the gravity that they deserve, rather than as 'domestic' matters.

Equally, 'hate crime' legislation came into being for a reason - it demonstrated that by the 1990s prejudice and discrimination (be that racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, or religious intolerance) were no longer socially acceptable, and it offended the collective majority. The language used in many of these chants does fall into the 'hate incident' or 'hate crime' category, and as such does constitute a criminal offence. Inaction by the authorities (be that the police or the FA) on this issue simply serves to perpetuate the idea among some groups of supporters that it is acceptable to behave in this way, and that there is no harm or offence caused because it is only 'banter'. The context of a football match does not excuse such behaviour or attitudes, and the only way in which there will ever be any progress on this issue is if there is continued pressure applied by the football clubs, the FA and the police to do something about it.

I disagree, and there is a very simple way to apply a moral hierarchy plus where crimes should be measured on the order of police priorities, and that is the consequences of crime on the victims.

Police inaction in the 2 examples I highlighted resulted in suicides, drug addiction, unwanted pregnancies, millions of pounds spent (and to be spent) by the state on counselling and thousands of devasted lives of children, who will bare the physical and mental scars of their child abuse for years if not the rest of their lives. I note these days the media refer to them as "survivors" such is the nature of their victimhood. If you think that the consequences of police inaction at football matches regarding homophobic chanting has lead to similar consequences for straight or gay BHA fans then you are being abdsurd.

This thread is full of rage and angst about this issue, which I'm sure is genuine and to a point entire understandable, however like everything in life there is a cost to pay, i.e. the quid pro quo. This is the practical reality of moving this crime up the order of Police priorities, because this is not just going to impact on the police of course but also the CPS, the courts etc.

Pushing what is likely to be hundreds of purpetrators through the criminal justice system wil have consequences. I am not highlighting this because the cost etc. is a reason for not doing it, but if we are having a sensible debate this has to be considered. Personally I would decriminalise non payment of the BBC licence fee as this puts huge burden on the courts but that's me.

Which nicely brings us back round to the hierarchy of priorities.....simply saying "think of the children" is meaningless and just reactionary. This thread is largely full of that invective these days.

 

[whitelion]

Sorry to distract from the important points being made in this thread but it's Kemp Town, not Kemptown. It's not a village; and St James's Street (not St James' Street) is not in Kemp Town!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Does CCTV come with sound now then, because if it did, the three Brighton fans would not be banned because it would have picked up the steward inciting the skirmish. All CCTV showed was the skirmish.

There are right & wrong ways to react. Getting into a skirmish is the wrong way. Just stating the obvious.

If I'd heard it, then I would've reported it to the stand manager/ head steward.

 

[fosters headband]

There are right & wrong ways to react. Getting into a skirmish is the wrong way. Just stating the obvious.

If I'd heard it, then I would've reported it to the stand manager/ head steward.

How can you report something when the steward is responsible for starting the skirmish, both verbally and physically?

 

[AmexRuislip]

View attachment stadium-safety-good-practice-guide.pdf

Interesting read

 

[fosters headband]

View attachment 88400

View attachment 88401

Interesting read

Do you believe all the stewards at the Amex and away grounds receive this training, because I don't

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How can you report something when the steward is responsible for starting the skirmish, both verbally and physically?

You walk away & find the stand manager or head steward.

 

[fosters headband]

You walk away & find the stand manager or head steward.

Sorry but you can't walk away when the steward has you by the throat, then is joined by many other stewards

I believe there was payback here for the way Brighton police acted against a Barnsley fan previously,which received a lot of publicity, but thats just my opinion.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Do you believe all the stewards at the Amex and away grounds receive this training, because I don't

I believe that as the Albion are new to the PL, and given how strict PB is with the rules, I think the majority of stewards have had 'the training'
Whether some of the stewards adhere to this, I guess is still under some scrutiny, if not then they should reported through the proper channels.
With other clubs, probably not??
This is where social media can help in cutting out abusive homophobic views from certain stewards, in the vein of recording of some events which are deemed unacceptable.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Unruly steward behaviour.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/we-were-treated-like-animals-11023143