[News] Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested

[seagulls4ever]

Yes.

So you missed the part where I said "He's saying it's possible that the pensioner may have lied, and the person never did break into his home"?

How ever unlikely it may be, it's possible for someone to lie and say someone broke into their house after they killed them, when the person they killed never broke into their house in the first place. People can stage things. So basically, it's highly likely that the person broke into his house, but the police cannot automatically assume this from the start. That would be a very dangerous precedent to set, don't you think?

 

[Diablo]

Do you want to finish reading before angrily typing a response? You don't have to read the whole thing if reading is hard/boring for you. Just read that last last bit.

Just off to bed.....Burglars beware AK47 under pillow.

 

[Diablo]

So you missed the part where I said "He's saying it's possible that the pensioner may have lied, and the person never did break into his home"?

How ever unlikely it may be, it's possible for someone to lie and say someone broke into their house after they killed them, when the person they killed never broke into their house in the first place. People can stage things. So basically, it's highly likely that the person broke into his house, but the police cannot automatically assume this. That would be a very dangerous precedent to set, don't you think?

Possibly......However very unlikely...The killed person was in house uninvited at midnight(or is this disputed)His Blood in house will confirm.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Read the article.

My verdict: Burglar was a scumbag from a family of scumbags.
Pensioner has saved the public a few hundred grand in tax money which would have been used to pay for said scumbags's prison time.

It's going to cost quite a bit for the investigations into the death, the post mortem and the coroners inquest. All of which take up police time & money, even if the old boy is t charged with anything.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Possibly......However very unlikely...The killed person was in house uninvited at midnight(or is this disputed)His Blood in house would confirm.

I don't think this is disputed. But right at the beginning, someone is dead, so the the police has to establish the circumstances. They can't just automatically take the pensioner's word for it that he was a burglar. If they did, it would give a free reign to anyone to kill someone and then stage a burglary to get away with it! His blood in the house wouldn't have confirmed he was a burglar if it was staged. But anyway, no one is saying the pensioner staged it, the point is just that the police cannot automatically assume things from the beginning and take someone's word for it - that's not how justice works.

 

[StonehamPark]

It's going to cost quite a bit for the investigations into the death, the post mortem and the coroners inquest. All of which take up police time & money, even if the old boy is t charged with anything.

Agreed.
However I would imagine the figure will be considerably lower than the total cost of a possible 5+ year jail sentence and trial/s etc.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There is room for a scenario similar to Tony Martin, where the burglar has told his mate in the kitchen, they'd got what they came for, & wanted to scarper.
Both make a move for the back door, & the old fella grabs a kitchen knife & thrusts it into the back of the fleeing burglar.

I am not saying this is what happened but the police have to examine every bit of evidence, take nothing for granted & look at all the angles.

I'm fairly sure this old fella, will be free to try to resume his life again in a while, but never jump to conclusions.

 

[GT49er]

Just off to bed.....Burglars beware AK47 under pillow.

That's your 'self defence' plea well and truly buggered then....................................

 

[GT49er]

Agreed.
However I would imagine the figure will be considerably lower than the total cost of a possible 5+ year jail sentence and trial/s etc.

....and probably, to most people, a much more satisfactory outcome............................

 

[Weststander]

....and probably, to most people, a much more satisfactory outcome............................

No politically correct to admit it, but I can live with this.

Old people in London and Kent can go to sleep slightly less vulnerable tonight.

 

[um bongo molongo]

To those saying the police have to investigate - of course - but why do you have to arrest the victim to do so (and yes, I consider him the victim here - he's the one who went to bed doing nothing wrong and now has years of trauma ahead of him)? Take him down the station, ask him questions to help with inquiries, but why arrest him, keep him in overnight and then only release him on bail (meaning he still has the stress of more questioning and a possible charge as well the horrific memory of some **** breaking in to his house and threatening him with a screwdriver). If the investigation finds that he actually lured some poor suspecting innocent - who happened to be carrying a screwdriver in case of any urgent maintenance - in to his house at 2am to knife him to death, then arrest him at that point.

 

[drew]

To those saying the police have to investigate - of course - but why do you have to arrest the victim to do so (and yes, I consider him the victim here - he's the one who went to bed doing nothing wrong and now has years of trauma ahead of him)? Take him down the station, ask him questions to help with inquiries, but why arrest him, keep him in overnight and then only release him on bail (meaning he still has the stress of more questioning and a possible charge as well the horrific memory of some **** breaking in to his house and threatening him with a screwdriver). If the investigation finds that he actually lured some poor suspecting innocent - who happened to be carrying a screwdriver in case of any urgent maintenance - in to his house at 2am to knife him to death, then arrest him at that point.

I suspect it is merely a formality so that anything he says is evidence and can be used in a court of law. Probably as much to protect his rights.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

The Secret Barrister is always worth keeping an eye on these days; he or she does a very good job of explaining the law behind whatever the headlines want you to think. And in this case, is particularly concise.

I shan't paste the text as it's quite long, but suffice to say, the reasons for the arrest are as simple as most of us think - https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/amp/?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Secret Barrister is always worth keeping an eye on these days; he or she does a very good job of explaining the law behind whatever the headlines want you to think. And in this case, is particularly concise.

I shan't paste the text as it's quite long, but suffice to say, the reasons for the arrest are as simple as most of us think - https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/amp/?

100% accurate, and non sensational unlike the press.

 

[papajaff]

Holding a screwdriver isn't much of a weapon, so not really armed

Yeah, cos if it was sticking out of your eye it would tickle wouldn't it?

 

[m20gull]

I didn't say it wasn't a weapon, just not much of one. My husband has, inadvertently, taken one into the Amex. He came straight from work and forgot he had some tools in his work bag.

A screwdriver could easily be used to critically wound, especially delivered from a younger man to a vulnerable person.

For example: http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/bromley/1079727.Teen_admits_screwdriver_killing/

 

[btnbelle]

To those saying the police have to investigate - of course - but why do you have to arrest the victim to do so (and yes, I consider him the victim here - he's the one who went to bed doing nothing wrong and now has years of trauma ahead of him)? Take him down the station, ask him questions to help with inquiries, but why arrest him, keep him in overnight and then only release him on bail (meaning he still has the stress of more questioning and a possible charge as well the horrific memory of some **** breaking in to his house and threatening him with a screwdriver). If the investigation finds that he actually lured some poor suspecting innocent - who happened to be carrying a screwdriver in case of any urgent maintenance - in to his house at 2am to knife him to death, then arrest him at that point.

Your right, its not the investigation by the police that is the problem. Arresting this pensioner was premature. Papers today report the burglar to be a career villain who was wanted by the police. Did the police not notice that when they found him dead?

Mr Richard Osborn-Brooks deserves a medal. He will have saved many hours of police time taking this man off the streets. Thats assuming the police actually investigate the crimes the burglar commits. Henry Vincent will never be free to commit more crime. The cost of this inquiry is a blessing.

 

[happypig]

Your right, its not the investigation by the police that is the problem. Arresting this pensioner was premature.

Why ? Has he, or his solicitor complained ? Are they accusing the police of an abuse of process ? If you read the link provided by [MENTION=87]Brightonfan1983[/MENTION] in post #173 it is explained why this was done. It's not as if they've shipped him off to Guantanamo Bay, he will have been looked after.

 

[btnbelle]

Why ? Has he, or his solicitor complained ? Are they accusing the police of an abuse of process ? If you read the link provided by [MENTION=87]Brightonfan1983[/MENTION] in post #173 it is explained why this was done. It's not as if they've shipped him off to Guantanamo Bay, he will have been looked after.

Our legal system needs reform so that innocent people, who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in this situation, can be treated respectfully as they deserve.

 

[happypig]

Our legal system needs reform so that innocent people, who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in this situation, can be treated respectfully as they deserve.

What evidence do you have to suggest he wasn't treated with respect ?