- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,625
That's down to the media. Not the police.
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[News] Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested
- Thread starter Stat Brother
- Start date
That's down to the media. Not the police.
How do we know that the dead guy was a burglar? Because the guy who killed him told the police that, right? He told them about the other guy, too. (I see the report he has priors and is from a family of criminals, but maybe this was that one time he wasn't doing something wrong, maybe that was the old guys motive?)
Remember Tracie Andrews? Claimed her fiance was murdered in a road rage attack.
Remember the kidnapping of Shannon Matthews?
Yes, those are extreme cases.
Yes, this guy is 78. Bernard Heginbotham was 99 when he slit his wife's throat. Jack Tindall was 96 when he strangled his wife to death. Amanda Rice Stevenson who shot her nephew when she was 96 had the charges dropped as she was deemed mentally unstable due to dementia. Michael Juskin, 100, is believed to have killed his wife with an axe before committing suicide. Putting aside the click-baity nature of the title: these 80-year-old athletes will blow your mind.
Look, I'm not saying this old man is a marathon running mass murderer. Or that it is likely the dead guy wasn't breaking into the old man's home , just that the police can't make assumptions. Probably not an original thought, but I thought I would actually provide examples that show the other side.
Remember Tracie Andrews? Claimed her fiance was murdered in a road rage attack.
Remember the kidnapping of Shannon Matthews?
Yes, those are extreme cases.
Yes, this guy is 78. Bernard Heginbotham was 99 when he slit his wife's throat. Jack Tindall was 96 when he strangled his wife to death. Amanda Rice Stevenson who shot her nephew when she was 96 had the charges dropped as she was deemed mentally unstable due to dementia. Michael Juskin, 100, is believed to have killed his wife with an axe before committing suicide. Putting aside the click-baity nature of the title: these 80-year-old athletes will blow your mind.
Look, I'm not saying this old man is a marathon running mass murderer. Or that it is likely the dead guy wasn't breaking into the old man's home , just that the police can't make assumptions. Probably not an original thought, but I thought I would actually provide examples that show the other side.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,625
If the guy is dead, then they'll need to forensically examine everything, and interview the "suspect" under caution. Much of what they'd need to do to achieve that, could only be achieved by arresting him.
I would imagine that, as spells in custody go, the homeowner in question has been treated with more respect and empathy than many who get nicked, particularly given that he'd have ben in a bit of a state himself after his ordeal. Do you not think the police involved own homes, have families, can possibly grasp what might have happened?
This is all just a media circus, whipping up a frenzy over something which really doesn't need to be. He'll only be charged if the evidence points to him having gone over the top. I'd suggest that, as a man in his seventies, with (it seems) a disabled wife, being confronted by two nocturnal burglars armed with sharp weapons, the level of force deemed reasonable in his case would be really quite high.
I would imagine that, as spells in custody go, the homeowner in question has been treated with more respect and empathy than many who get nicked, particularly given that he'd have ben in a bit of a state himself after his ordeal. Do you not think the police involved own homes, have families, can possibly grasp what might have happened?
This is all just a media circus, whipping up a frenzy over something which really doesn't need to be. He'll only be charged if the evidence points to him having gone over the top. I'd suggest that, as a man in his seventies, with (it seems) a disabled wife, being confronted by two nocturnal burglars armed with sharp weapons, the level of force deemed reasonable in his case would be really quite high.
Acker 79 says "How do we know that the dead guy was a burglar? Because the guy who killed him told the police that, right? He told them about the other guy, too. (I see the report he has priors and is from a family of criminals, but maybe this was that one time he wasn't doing something wrong, maybe that was the old guys motive?")
So the dead guy has previous is from a family of Burglars,Had broken into pensioners house and you think he might be doing nothing wrong? Are you drunk/deluded or what. At midnight anyone uninvited in someone elses House is doing something wrong.
So the dead guy has previous is from a family of Burglars,Had broken into pensioners house and you think he might be doing nothing wrong? Are you drunk/deluded or what. At midnight anyone uninvited in someone elses House is doing something wrong.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
Acker 79 says "How do we know that the dead guy was a burglar? Because the guy who killed him told the police that, right? He told them about the other guy, too. (I see the report he has priors and is from a family of criminals, but maybe this was that one time he wasn't doing something wrong, maybe that was the old guys motive?")
So the dead guy has previous is from a family of Burglars,Had broken into pensioners house and you think he might be doing nothing wrong? Are you drunk/deluded or what. At midnight anyone uninvited in someone elses House is doing something wrong.
Spectacularly missing the point.
What they said.
StonehamPark
#Brighton-Nil
Read the article.
My verdict: Burglar was a scumbag from a family of scumbags.
Pensioner has saved the public a few hundred grand in tax money which would have been used to pay for said scumbags's prison time.
Weststander
Well-known member
Spectacularly nailing the point.
Other than a bizarre post, all reliable reports mention a burglary.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/pensioner-burglar-stabbed-death-named-henry-vincent-london-hither-green-kent-a8290576.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43648896
http://news.met.police.uk/news/death-of-man-in-hither-green-301394?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=Subscription&utm_content=current_news
The points of debate are whether excessive force was used and should the homeowner have been arrested?
Spectacularly missing the point.
The point being??
What did they(whoever they might be) say?
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Weststander
Well-known member
Plus previous convictions for distraction burglaries of people in the 80's = scum.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/jail-for-distraction-burglars-wh-a30870/
'They' are Seagulls4ever, they were in the quote.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
Read his first sentence "How do we know that the dead guy was a burglar?"
That might help you understand the rest of his post. He's saying it's possible that the pensioner may have lied, and the person never did break into his home, and has provided some examples of similar sorts of incidents. So of course the police have to due their due diligence. He's not saying that someone who breaks into someone's home in the middle of the night is doing nothing wrong.
In fact, here's a story from just a couple of days ago:
Read more at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43629255
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,896
I guess that when two people force themselves into your house at night, in an area known for regular burglary, and one of them forces you into your kitchen and comes at you with a screwdriver they're not collecting for the Red Cross.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
What else may they have broken into someone`s house at midnight to do ??
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
Did you read the rest of my post?
Yes.
This debate started before the dead guy's history and identity were public knowledge. The outrage that police might want to establish facts with verifiable evidence rather than just take the word of a man who had just killed someone was on display before we knew any details about the burglar.
Did the journalists run an investigation and come to their conclusions based on all the available evidence in the crime scene? I doubt it. It is more likely they reported what they were told by police/sources within the police who will know what they were told by the old man who killed him.
Journalists also reported shannon matthews' disappearance as a kidnapping. They also reported the death of Tracie Andrews' fiancé as a road rage attack. They report what they know at the time based on what police sources tell them, which is based on what the the old man who killed him said.
My point was not that the guy didn't burgle the pensioner, my point was (and I repeat from my previous that it wasn't entirely original in itself) that police have to investigate to establish what happened, rather than take one person's version of events (where my post added to the not so original point was to provide examples of why they can't/shouldn't make assumptions). To take one line out of the context of the post which goes on to explains the point I was making to argue that it's ridiculous I would suggest the dead guy didn't commit a crime is to miss the point.
Do you want to finish reading before angrily typing a response? You don't have to read the whole thing if reading is hard/boring for you. Just read that last last bit.