Hillsborough

[SpidersLegs]

I almost agree with these sentiments, and indeed I want to, but I can't. Hillsborough happened, not because of the design of the stadium, but because of the huge number of Liverpool fans that turned up without a ticket trying to blag their way in. Yes the police made mistakes, and once these fans were inside it was carnage, BUT if they hadn't been there in the first place it would never have happened.

Of course people dying is tragic, especially as the likelihood is that the people who dies were people with tickets who got into the ground early (as they were nearest the fences) but until the Liverpool fans actually admit that they contributed enormously to these events, rather than revel in their tragic self pitying way in sad nostalgia, then I don't have the degree of sadness that many here seem to be displaying.

What a load of bollocks!

 

[Bwian]

Minutes silence so the scouse can rob the corpses

You pathetic piece of shit.

 

[Djmiles]

Minutes silence so the scouse can rob the corpses

You wouldn't say that to anyone face to face, so don't try and be funny and do it on the internet.

Joking or not, you are one utterly pathetic excuse for a human being.

 

[Statto]

I almost agree with these sentiments, and indeed I want to, but I can't. Hillsborough happened, not because of the design of the stadium, but because of the huge number of Liverpool fans that turned up without a ticket trying to blag their way in. Yes the police made mistakes, and once these fans were inside it was carnage, BUT if they hadn't been there in the first place it would never have happened.

Of course people dying is tragic, especially as the likelihood is that the people who dies were people with tickets who got into the ground early (as they were nearest the fences) but until the Liverpool fans actually admit that they contributed enormously to these events, rather than revel in their tragic self pitying way in sad nostalgia, then I don't have the degree of sadness that many here seem to be displaying.

Agree with most of that.

 

[Rookie]

Can still remember watching it on tele and I was only 8. Anyone who jokes about what happened really should hang their heads in shame. A black day for football

 

[Kylies Stunt Arse]

What a load of bollocks!

Why? What exactly did I say there that was wrong?

 

[Beach Hut]

Actually went to the Everton v Norwich semi-final at Villa Park that day with the now wife.

Some disgraceful comments on this thread about what was a total tragedy for football, I still remember the events unfolding when we got back home around 15 minutes after the end.

It was and still is the worst day in English football and thankfully was a wake up call to move football forward.

All of you who have made a stupid comment on this thread should remember many people went to a football match and died, none of them deserved that.

 

[Gully]

All of you who have made a stupid comment on this thread should remember many people went to a football match and died, none of them deserved that.

That was the point I was trying to make in a roundabout way...seeing Alan Hansen on MOTD this evening, who is clearly still deeply traumatised by what happened on that day, plus the comments he made about the parents of the lad on the life support machine waiting till the players had spoken to their son before turning it off...anyone who thinks this is all a bit of a joke would do well to reflect on just that.

 

[blue and white army]

I retract my disgraceful comment, very inappropriate and abhorrent

 

[HseagullsH]

I retract my disgraceful comment, very inappropriate and abhorrent

Blue and White Army OUT

 

[Don Quixote]

You wouldn't say that to anyone face to face, so don't try and be funny and do it on the internet.

Joking or not, you are one utterly pathetic excuse for a human being.

The messed up thing is that he actually would say it to someone's face mate.

 

[alex_brighton]

if anyone boos in the minuites silence are a discrace to football

 

[Soton Seagull]

Truly sad event, but I agree with the very obvious point that if people hadn't turned up without tickets and forced their way in no one would have died. Police didn't do themselves many favours but the role of the ticketless that, dare I say, killed their own seems to not be mentioned for fear of upsetting Scousers.

 

[clapham_gull]

I almost agree with these sentiments, and indeed I want to, but I can't. Hillsborough happened, not because of the design of the stadium, but because of the huge number of Liverpool fans that turned up without a ticket trying to blag their way in. Yes the police made mistakes, and once these fans were inside it was carnage, BUT if they hadn't been there in the first place it would never have happened.

Of course people dying is tragic, especially as the likelihood is that the people who dies were people with tickets who got into the ground early (as they were nearest the fences) but until the Liverpool fans actually admit that they contributed enormously to these events, rather than revel in their tragic self pitying way in sad nostalgia, then I don't have the degree of sadness that many here seem to be displaying.

Truly sad event, but I agree with the very obvious point that if people hadn't turned up without tickets and forced their way in no one would have died. Police didn't do themselves many favours but the role of the ticketless that, dare I say, killed their own seems to not be mentioned for fear of upsetting Scousers.

I think the Taylor report actually concluded that the total number fans in the stand in end was less than it's official capacity.

It was the way in which they were let in and not stewarding into areas where there was space that was the problem.

The "forced in allegation" went round the world because it was reported very earlier on by news organisations after a suggestion by the police.

This was later proved (and admitted) to be a lie. No gate was forced open, it was simply opened. It's one of those things than goes round and round and gets constantly repeated. Doesn't make it true though and it been officially discounted as a myth by the Taylor report and later in a court of law.

Problem was loads of fans WITH tickets turned up at the same time very late. I understand coaches were held by the police on the motorway.

This was a disaster waiting to happen and it could have happened at many other football ground.

Funny that people are still repeating things that at a very level have been disproved years ago by people in authority with no vested interest other than to find the truth.

The campaign by the families has been to see those responsible brought to justice. They won the "whose fault was it" argument years ago. In fact, they didn't have to really. You only have to read the official report to see what's been posted above isn't true.

That's the power of the media though, apparently Freddie Starr ate a hamster too.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I think the Taylor report actually concluded that the total number fans in the stand in end was less than it's official capacity.

It was the way in which they were let in and not stewarding into areas where there was space that was the problem.

The "forced in allegation" went round the world because it was reported very earlier on by news organisations after a suggestion by the police.

This was later proved (and admitted) to be a lie. No gate was forced open, it was simply opened. It's one of those things than goes round and round and gets constantly repeated. Doesn't make it true though and it been officially discounted as a myth by the Taylor report and later in a court of law.

Problem was loads of fans WITH tickets turned up at the same time very late. I understand coaches were held by the police on the motorway.

This was a disaster waiting to happen and it could have happened at many other football ground.

Funny that people are still repeating things that at a very level have been disproved years ago by people in authority with no vested interest other than to find the truth.

The campaign by the families has been to see those responsible brought to justice. They won the "whose fault was it" argument years ago. In fact, they didn't have to really. You only have to read the official report to see what's been posted above isn't true.

That's the power of the media though, apparently Freddie Starr ate a hamster too.

Thank f***, a sensible and accurate post on the subject at last.

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RIP

 

[Hotchilidog]

I almost agree with these sentiments, and indeed I want to, but I can't. Hillsborough happened, not because of the design of the stadium, but because of the huge number of Liverpool fans that turned up without a ticket trying to blag their way in. Yes the police made mistakes, and once these fans were inside it was carnage, BUT if they hadn't been there in the first place it would never have happened.

Of course people dying is tragic, especially as the likelihood is that the people who dies were people with tickets who got into the ground early (as they were nearest the fences) but until the Liverpool fans actually admit that they contributed enormously to these events, rather than revel in their tragic self pitying way in sad nostalgia, then I don't have the degree of sadness that many here seem to be displaying.

I'm sorry mate I totally disagree. Those fans died because there was a fence at the front of the terrace blocking any escape route for those caught in the crush. Even if you repeated the late rush into the ground, the totally inept policing, the woeful organisation but take away that fence then we would not be having this discussion now.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I'm sorry mate I totally disagree. Those fans died because there was a fence at the front of the terrace blocking any escape route for those caught in the crush. Even if you repeated the late rush into the ground, the totally inept policing, the woeful organisation but take away that fence then we would not be having this discussion now.

Spot on. I can't believe that 20 years after the event so many people still spout so much bollocks about this tragedy. Anyone who went to big games in the 80's can tell you it could have happened anywhere there were large terraces fenced in. I remember being crushed at Highbury in the 83 FA Cup semi final and people being trampled and trapped against the fencing in the North Stand when the Chelsea Headhunters stormed us. Hilsborough was a tragic set of circumstances that conspired to kill 96 people and injure hundreds more but the simple fact is it could not have happened had football supporters not been caged in like animals.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I think this post from a Sheffield Wednesday fan on another (non-football) messageboard sums it up very well:

Like any football fan who was attending matches in the 80's the Hillsborough disaster brings the shivering thought of "it could have been me". The fact that it was at the home of my team brings it chillingly close to home - I've sat or stood in every stand at Hillsborough over the years, including the Leppings Lane. But as any fan of a certain age will tell you sadly it was a disaster waiting to happen - every ground had fences to "contain" the hooligan element (and by definition everyone else), every ground had narrow entrances, crowded walkways and terracing pens. It could have been Old Trafford, Highbury, Villa Park, Anfield or even Wembley but it was Hillsborough.

What happened that day was a tragedy - 96 lives were lost and hundreds more people had their lives changed forever. But it was also an accident - a whole raft of individual circumstances and issues that collectively caused a tragedy. No-one caused the loss of life, though with the benefit of hindsight wrong decisions were made, but they were made for the right reasons (going right back to the allocation of ends which many quote as the root cause of the problem). Sadly the world isn't perfect and I genuinely believe that each individuals decisions that day were the decisions the majority of people would have made with the knowledge each person had at the time.

The anniversary should be about remembrance and ensuring that the lessons learnt continue to be applied rigorously at every major event in the future. There were many lies spread about Liverpool fans in the days that followed but there have also been many lies spread about my club. Even when the campaign to have SWFC officials charged was at its most vociferous (and targeting the supporters of Wednesday) the minutes silence at Hillsborough on or around the anniversary was impeccably observed. We as a club and as fans know it could have been us, just as it could have been any football fan.

The Justice for 96 campaign is widely supported and widely praised but you have to dig quite deep to understand it's goals - hidden away on it's website is the following "Our legal campaign encompasses both survivors and families of those who died and we intend to pursue our legal battle in Europe should Justice be denied by the legal process in this country. As well as the South Yorkshire Police, we believe Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and the Football Association have yet to brought to account for their part in causing the deaths of 96 men, women and children and injuries to over 400 supporters." For me that's not justice, that's revenge.

I'll be at Hillsborough next Saturday, and as always I'll be remembering those people just like myself, football fans, who died doing what so many of us love doing - following our team. RIP.

 

[BUTTERBALL]

Hilsborough was a tragedy borne out of the hooliganism culture in the 70'2/80's. Grounds were ordered to have perimeter fencing to keep fans from invading the pitch and getting to each other. Sometimes these even had spikes on top. There was one at the Goldstone in front of the North stand. Unfortunately, these also effectively penned fans in an extremely enclosed area. I remember in 1985, I was 14 and went to watch Brighton play Peterborough at London Road and spent half the game being crushed against a barrier due to the numbers and the crowd surging forward every time we attacked. It was the worst experience I have ever had at a football ground.

As another poster said, the open gate contributed without doubt but these fences were the real cause as they prevented safe dispersal of the crowd on to the pitch. Thankfully some good came of it - The Taylor report changed the way we watch football for ever, stopped fans being treated worse than animals and probably prevented more tragedies.

I will always remember coming in from playing snooker with a mate, turning on the TV to watch the game and seeing those dreadful scenes. It still sends a shiver down my spine 20 years later.

R.I.P. Hilsborough victims. Football fans will never forget.

 

[clapham_gull]

.. and the amount of fans that turned up without tickets was concluded as being as insignificant as it was at other sporting events.

I't gives the implication that the game was a huge sell out, when in reality tickets were still available on the day.

Doesn't stop people continuing to spout untruths about it....

.... even on here.