Hillsborough verdict: Fans unlawfully killed

[sir albion]

I also blamed the fans as to me it looked like a few thousand to many fans at least who were ticketless....maybe there was a fair few ticketless as it was common back then,but the police lost control at the end of the day and justice is served.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Hopefully now there will be an ADULT debate about the return of terraces to football, the Taylor report is discredited and it's far more dangerous a crowd standing in a section with seats then in a proper terrace with crush barriers etc .

Ernest,do you honestly expect those that run English football (Sky T/V) will ever allow it ?

 

[rippleman]

Hopefully now there will be an ADULT debate about the return of terraces to football, the Taylor report is discredited and it's far more dangerous a crowd standing in a section with seats then in a proper terrace with crush barriers etc .

This, this and this.

I have long held the view that the Taylor Report was based on lies from the police at the original inquests and the inquiry itself. It should now be ripped up. Terracing and alcohol were NOT responsible, in any way, for the tragedy.

Now let's see the bent coppers who lied at the inquest and to LJ Taylor prosecuted for perverting the course of justice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I absolutely feel for those effected, awful awful stuff, but in so many ways it was of its time.

Fans were at times out of control, gangs were running amok here and abroad, smashing through gates and fencing to 'jib in' was common place, the clubs offered very little safety controls, the football grounds (they were never Stadia) were unsafe and unmaintained.

How the hell did Heysel get picked to host the European Cup, disgraceful.

I am in no way blaming those fans that were there that day, but it could of happened nearly anywhere at anytime to any of us that were supporters during this era, no one seemed to know any better, it was how things were done.

A few in authority that day will be made accountable within 2016 wisdom, I shan't lose any sleep when they are, but I am not sure it will achieve much for anyone.

Sorry, this is much worse than a thing of the time. It was a careless bit of police-driven negligence, followed by a police-run conspiracy, backed up by the thatcher government and the Thatcher fan press..

 

[Ernest]

Ernest,do you honestly expect those that run English football (Sky T/V) will ever allow it ?

If ALL fans went on STRIKE they might

 

[Leekbrookgull]

One thing and its just my opinion,i simply can't understand why the whole Leppings Lane end was never demolished redesigned and rebuilt ?

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

Still find it ironic that all these years down the line football grounds have changed beyond belief mainly due to this disaster, and yet that hovel of a stand where it all took place still exists, albeit with some added seats.

**edit** leekbrook beat me to it!

 

[Normal Rob]

I find this picture powerful beyond words...

 

[glasfryn]

Fantastic writing from David Conn here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

Had stop halfway through as it was choking me up. Finished it just now.

I don't know about everyone else but the second strongest emotion I'm feeling now, behind relief, is anger. The really scary thing? My anger likely isn't even a dot compared to that of the victims families. I can't even begin to imagine how I would control that level of vitriol.

it goes beyond anger
there are some good police officers out there, but that 116 have done those few good ones no favours,what little trust I did have has now gone completely

 

[Diego Napier]

I also blamed the fans as to me it looked like a few thousand to many fans at least who were ticketless....

It might have "looked like" to you however:

Question 7 answered by the Jury:

7. Behaviour of the supporters: Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury's answer: No

So your blame is completely unfounded.

 

[chaileyjem]

the Taylor report is discredited

Is it ?

 

[rippleman]

Is it ?

Yes! Because it was based on the evidence of the police officers. And they LIED!!

 

[Easy 10]

If ALL fans went on STRIKE they might

REAL fans don't go on STRIKE

Anyway, it'll never happen. There isn't the political will, and I doubt Tony fancies paying however much it'd cost to rip out all the seats in the north stand to install safe standing.

Plus, clubs like having the additional control they have by selling seats instead of terrace tickets. Can't see them giving that up lightly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I also blamed the fans as to me it looked like a few thousand to many fans at least who were ticketless....maybe there was a fair few ticketless as it was common back then,but the police lost control at the end of the day and justice is served.

No, the inquests heard that the number of fans that turned up at Hillsborough were the same as the number of tickets sold.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

One thing and its just my opinion,i simply can't understand why the whole Leppings Lane end was never demolished redesigned and rebuilt ?

That dreadful tunnel is still there as the entrance to the lower tier. I've been through it and it made me shudder.

 

[LlcoolJ]

That David Conn article is brilliant and heartbreaking. Everyone should read it. Sat with a pint, tears running down my face and really, really angry, despite the fact that I already knew most of this stuff.

I have renewed respect for the families for enduring and persisting with their fight for so many years. Could have been anyone who loves football who died that day.

Don't care how old the lying scum who did this are now, they need to go to prison.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Is it ?

Part of it is. The assumption that Alcohol was a contributing factor, ticketless fans were a factor and hooliganism was a factor. Almost half of the Taylor Report 'Final' is taken up by how to deal with 'hooligans'. This is all based on a lie about Hillsborough. The report is mostly out of date as well as discredited by the subsequent enquiries and simply the world not being the same place anymore. Whilst many parts are true today, many parts are based upon the way football was and stadia were back then. It should now be reviewed and many parts now put to the past and many parts taken forward and improved upon.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/HOM000028060001.pdf
in short:

Conclusion
2.47 A study of all these reports (and there are numerous reports and discussion papers by other bodies) shows that the following are measures which have been frequently recommended:
Closed Circuit Television
Membership Cards
Segregation
More seating at football grounds
Encouragement of supporters' clubs
A ban on alcohol
Involvement of the clubs with the community
Heavier penalties.

Many parts based on a lie, many parts out of date, many parts still true today. Parts of the recommendation like ID cards and membership schemes were not adopted after trials proved them unworkable. In the years after the Alcohol ban was partially removed. It is now time for the Alcohol ban to be fully removed and all seater club's stadia to be allowed. Of course subject to safety, to allow safe standing.

 

[Easy 10]

It is now time for the Alcohol ban to be fully removed and all seater club's stadia to be allowed, subject to safety, to allow safe standing.

I'm not saying I disagree. But whats in it for the clubs ?

I think that on the whole they would probably prefer to maintain the ban on alcohol when watching the game, and they would like to maintain the control they currently have by knowing who is buying every ticket for every seat, rather than the old terrace ticket stand-where-you-like that would result if they agreed to safe standing.

 

[8ace]

Part of it is. The assumption that Alcohol was a contributing factor, ticketless fans were a factor and hooliganism was a factor. Almost half of the Taylor Report 'Final' is taken up by how to deal with 'hooligans'. This is all based on a lie about Hillsborough. The report is mostly out of date as well as discredited by the subsequent enquiries and simply the world not being the same place anymore. Whilst many parts are true today, many parts are based upon the way football was and stadia were back then. It should now be reviewed and many parts now put to the past and many parts taken forward and improved upon.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/HOM000028060001.pdf
in short:

Conclusion
2.47 A study of all these reports (and there are numerous reports and discussion papers by other bodies) shows that the following are measures which have been frequently recommended:
Closed Circuit Television
Membership Cards
Segregation
More seating at football grounds
Encouragement of supporters' clubs
A ban on alcohol
Involvement of the clubs with the community
Heavier penalties.

Many parts based on a lie, many parts out of date, many parts still true today. Parts of the recommendation like ID cards and membership schemes were not adopted after trials proved them unworkable. In the years after the Alcohol ban was partially removed. It is now time for the Alcohol ban to be fully removed and all seater club's stadia to be allowed. Of course subject to safety, to allow safe standing.

The Alcohol ban was introduced with the Sporting Events Act 1985.

 

[Ernest]

The Alcohol ban was introduced with the Sporting Events Act 1985.

After Luton v Millwall , was the start of the campaign against fans by the TORIES