Hillsborough verdict: Fans unlawfully killed

[Carrot Cruncher]

And maybe SIr Bernard Ingham...

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Hopefully someone will take a blowtorch to his eyebrows...

 

[glasfryn]

And maybe SIr Bernard Ingham...

is he still alive?

 

[Bwian]

Utter scum. He should have his knighthood revoked.

A 3 month custodial spell in Walton Prison should sort the twunt out.

 

[rippleman]

Let's not forget Boris Johnson's statement around 2004 either. Unforgiveable.

But the politicians were reliant on what the OB were telling them. That is where the blame lies; the conspiracy amongst all the OB that day, co-ordinated and led by that scumbag Duckenfield. Every copper who lied in their statement and to previous inquests should now face prosecution. It is they, and they alone, who are responsible for the agony that the families had to endure for 27 years.

 

[brakespear]

And maybe SIr Bernard Ingham...

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Disgusting. Hopefully he and McKenzie will be on TV at some point to discuss this. The pricks.

 

[Acker79]

I obviously didnt mean who delivered the verdict, but who was responsible for the killing.

Given:

Ninety-six football fans who died as a result of a crush in the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed, the inquests have concluded.

Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.
The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles.
When the conclusion of the unlawful killing was revealed, families were seen hugging each other in the public gallery and some punched the air.

The jury also concluded

• Police errors caused a dangerous situation at the turnstiles
• Failures by commanding officers caused a crush on the terraces
• There were mistakes in the police control box over the order to open the Leppings Lane end exit gates
• Defects at the stadium contributed the disaster
• There was an error in the safety certification of the Hillsborough stadium
• Police delayed declaring a major incident
• The emergency response including the ambulance service was also delayed

Is it right to try to find one person to blame? It seems to me, looking at what Titanic has posted, and what little I've read of the Taylor report (what I read of it was basically a scene setting thing, describing a societal attitude that looked down on football fans, and that attitude seeped into all the decisions), the cause of this incident is varied and complex and trying to pin down one or two people to say "they're to blame" seems to over-simplify things.

 

[ROSM]

Given:



Is it right to try to find one person to blame? It seems to me, looking at what Titanic has posted, and what little I've read of the Taylor report (what I read of it was basically a scene setting thing, describing a societal attitude that looked down on football fans, and that attitude seeped into all the decisions), the cause of this incident is varied and complex and trying to pin down one or two people to say "they're to blame" seems to over-simplify things.

It was the coroner who set the benchmarks to question 6 that specifically called out Duckenfield (see my post on page 2 of this thread)

Basically saying that all the other errors and omissions wouldn't in themselves have caused unlawful killing if Duckenfield hadn't done what he did

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Let's not forget Boris Johnson's statement around 2004 either. Unforgiveable.

But the politicians were reliant on what the OB were telling them. That is where the blame lies; the conspiracy amongst all the OB that day, co-ordinated and led by that scumbag Duckenfield. Every copper who lied in their statement and to previous inquests should now face prosecution. It is they, and they alone, who are responsible for the agony that the families had to endure for 27 years.

Absolutely.

One of the most heartbreaking things I read when following the inquests, as reported by David Conn, was the evidence from the parents of a 15 year old boy who died. They went to the gym to identify his body, and his Mum threw her arms around the dead boy. The copper there shouted at her to stop touching the body as it was their property now!! No compassion, no feelings, just brusque orders.

 

[BBassic]

Fantastic writing from David Conn here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

Had stop halfway through as it was choking me up. Finished it just now.

I don't know about everyone else but the second strongest emotion I'm feeling now, behind relief, is anger. The really scary thing? My anger likely isn't even a dot compared to that of the victims families. I can't even begin to imagine how I would control that level of vitriol.

 

[cirC]

Like many I thought the Liverpool fans were to blame,how wrong! It was though an assumption by many after the Heysel Stadium disaster that the Liverpool fans were in the wrong again.Sorry doesn't really cover it but for the suffering of the families concerned it is sincere.

 

[Quinney]

Having followed the Albion away during 80's & 90's it comes as no surprise that South Yorkshire police were to blame and tried to cover it up. Justice has taken 27 years but at least the victim's families and the nation know what really happened. Shame on South Yorkshire Police, the press and the government at the time. Now the wait for apologies and prosecutions as a result.

 

[BigGully]

I absolutely feel for those effected, awful awful stuff, but in so many ways it was of its time.

Fans were at times out of control, gangs were running amok here and abroad, smashing through gates and fencing to 'jib in' was common place, the clubs offered very little safety controls, the football grounds (they were never Stadia) were unsafe and unmaintained.

How the hell did Heysel get picked to host the European Cup, disgraceful.

I am in no way blaming those fans that were there that day, but it could of happened nearly anywhere at anytime to any of us that were supporters during this era, no one seemed to know any better, it was how things were done.

A few in authority that day will be made accountable within 2016 wisdom, I shan't lose any sleep when they are, but I am not sure it will achieve much for anyone.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Let's not forget Boris Johnson's statement around 2004 either. Unforgiveable.

But the politicians were reliant on what the OB were telling them. That is where the blame lies; the conspiracy amongst all the OB that day, co-ordinated and led by that scumbag Duckenfield. Every copper who lied in their statement and to previous inquests should now face prosecution. It is they, and they alone, who are responsible for the agony that the families had to endure for 27 years.

The police in charge at Hillsborough clearly failed in their duty of care that day. They should have had the courage to admit this at the earliest opportunity but chose instead to cover up their errors in order to try to protect individuals and South Yorkshire Police's reputation. Many statements were altered without the witnesses knowledge and careers were threatened by intimidation tactics. Yes, those people who attempted this cover up to should be investigated and brought to account and I hope the families and friends of those who died can finally find some kind of closure.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hillsborough-policeman-whose-statement-was-altered-1324777

 

[Easy 10]

I popped onto the Sun website out of curiosity to see how they are covering this story. Needless to say its not the lead. There was also this in the comments section.

graham jones 1 hr ago

really suprised at this verdict as we are talking about 30 years ago when health and safety laws were a lot different cannot possibly see how any one could be blamed for this event

Bayou Gator
24 minutes ago

I will never be convinced that drunk and ticketless fans played no part in this tragedy.

No idea either why people always have a go at the Sun over this, it has different owners and staff now.

Get over it people.

Wow. Sun readers

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Fantastic writing from David Conn here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

Had stop halfway through as it was choking me up. Finished it just now.

I don't know about everyone else but the second strongest emotion I'm feeling now, behind relief, is anger. The really scary thing? My anger likely isn't even a dot compared to that of the victims families. I can't even begin to imagine how I would control that level of vitriol.

I knew a lot of that stuff from following the inquests, but it is still very hard and painful to read. The cover up and lies were downright evil.

 

[Buzzer]

The police have used Hillsborough as a reference point for more or less every single draconian measure that has made going to see a football match a bloody pain in the neck. I think now is the right time for a thorough review of the policies the police have played a major part in. I'd include

Bubble matches
jail sentences for first offences that outside of football would warrant a caution
unlawful detainments,
restrictions on the numbers of supporters
changing the dates of matches to ridiculously inconvenient times
intrusive and unnecessary surveillance
a general attitude that refuses to acknowledge the views of fans
Safe standing
football fans being uniquely discriminated against such as not being able to have a drink whilst watching a game.


Respect is a two-way thing and right now as far as football is concerned the police need to build bridges and fast.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fantastic writing from David Conn here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

l.

I was going to post the same link. It's a must read, especially if you think this is old news or unimportant. Read how the police, after blaming drink for the incident got pissed up themselves. Read how the piss and vomit was people dying. Read how South Yorkshire Police and Duckenfield put the families through the hell of an adversarial trial to cover their own backsides. Read how Duckenfield was completely unsuited to being in charge and was only there because the usual commander had been replaced - after his officers staged a mock abduction to bully a junior. Read what The Sun and Ingham and SYP don't want you to. Then weep.

Then maybe consider that if you were 10 or over in 1989 and a football fan that could have been you.

 

[El Presidente]

The police have used Hillsborough as a reference point for more or less every single draconian measure that has made going to see a football match a bloody pain in the neck. I think now is the right time for a thorough review of the policies the police have played a major part in. I'd include

Bubble matches
jail sentences for first offences that outside of football would warrant a caution
unlawful detainments,
restrictions on the numbers of supporters
changing the dates of matches to ridiculously inconvenient times
intrusive and unnecessary surveillance
a general attitude that refuses to acknowledge the views of fans
Safe standing
football fans being uniquely discriminated against such as not being able to have a drink whilst watching a game.


Respect is a two-way thing and right now as far as football is concerned the police need to build bridges and fast.

Agree totally, also the abuse of section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act, which the police have used to stop fans attending matches simply because they didn't like the look of them.

We currently have the ludicrous law that rugby fans can drink alcohol in their seats at matches but not football fans.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And maybe SIr Bernard Ingham...

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Thoroughly nasty official spokesman for a thoroughly evil regime. Cvnts. The truth will always out eventually.

1-0 to The Enemy Within

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The police have used Hillsborough as a reference point for more or less every single draconian measure that has made going to see a football match a bloody pain in the neck. I think now is the right time for a thorough review of the policies the police have played a major part in. I'd include

Bubble matches
jail sentences for first offences that outside of football would warrant a caution
unlawful detainments,
restrictions on the numbers of supporters
changing the dates of matches to ridiculously inconvenient times
intrusive and unnecessary surveillance
a general attitude that refuses to acknowledge the views of fans
Safe standing
football fans being uniquely discriminated against such as not being able to have a drink whilst watching a game.


Respect is a two-way thing and right now as far as football is concerned the police need to build bridges and fast.

Just recently, someone in Lancing objected to the stand being built at the training ground for U21 matches, citing 'loud mouth yobs will attend'.