Hillsborough verdict: Fans unlawfully killed

[ROSM]

Who is apportioning blame here?.. nobody..... it's just a view based on personal experience... I am not saying it's right, I just find it difficult to believe that they can so certain that there were no ticket less fans..... we'll actually they were saying it was their view that ticket less fans didn't contribute.....

I have said before... I would firstly target the FA, SWFC and the council regulators who all managed to ignore previous history in that terrace, and the fact that there was no valid safety certificate.... but still assign Hillsborough to host the 2nd highest profile game of the season.

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South Yorkshire Police spent 24million of our money on lawyers to cast doubt on the facts that you are still questioning. So despite Taylor report saying this, the Hillsborough independent panel saying it and this inquest now saying it to a decision reached on that point unanimously by your peers, there seems to be continuing questioning.

 

[The Wookiee]

1) No-one knows
2) It's been proved time and time again that it wasn't a factor

Again - the HSE reviewed the CTV outside the ground - painstakingly. They concluded (again) that ticketless fans (if they existed) did not contribute to the disaster.

It's a myth.

Taylor was under a lot of political pressure. Some on what he worked on has been proved to be lies, but the above wasn't. It was primary evidence.

.. but even he came to the conclusion that the fans weren't at fault. What he got wrong was not finding who actually was.

Drip drip into people's heads and it worked. Until yesterday....

Fair enough

 

[Danny-Boy]

That's either a really sick joke or you are a complete moron, or both. Can't you read?

I just wonder where a lot of people on here wwere during the 1980's, other than in their cradles.

Has anyone here not remembered that from Heysel onwards Liverpool fans were vilified for a televised riot during which a number of Juventus fans were themselves terrified by attacks into trampling each other to death?

The consequences of that were that ALL English teams were banned completely from Euro competition for about 5 years. Liverpool themselves were banned from re-entry until 1991/2 when (ironically for Palace) their second place in the league qualified them again for the old EUFA Cup ahead of Palace who had finished third that season, their highest placing ever.

I still remember the feeling of aggrievement from other English fans, notably Everton, who were thus forced to watch European football for season after season without being able to qualify for it. In 1989 there was I believe a clear sentiment that in some way Liverpool supporters had brought the tragic events at Hillsborough on themselves to some degree.

I listened to part of the Kelly Kates (nee Dalglish) documentary last night. Not ONCE did I hear the issue of Heysel brought up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster#English_club_ban

 

[heathgate]

Human error and mistakes ultimately cost the lives of 96 people. Those mistakes cannot be righted. However, surely the biggest crime here is the institutional lies, covering up and ultimately corruption that have been part of this process for 27 years. Evidence within this inquest was still riddled with these lies. Yes, target those at the FA, SWFC, the Local Council etc. but you're only finding human errors there. Beyond that there is conspiracy to change the course of justice for 27 years and counting from a police force, from public services, from elected members. This undermines a basic trust in accountability for our democracy. There is far more at stake here than blaming individual decisions.

None of the justice you outline as your first targets could take place because of these lies.

The cover ups and the initial planning mistakes are all up for equal legal redress surely?... why would the responsibilty for the deaths of those people take 2nd fiddle to the subsequent buracratic and political shenanigans?...

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[heathgate]

South Yorkshire Police spent 24million of our money on lawyers to cast doubt on the facts that you are still questioning. So despite Taylor report saying this, the Hillsborough independent panel saying it and this inquest now saying it to a decision reached on that point unanimously by your peers, there seems to be continuing questioning.

I have an enquiring mind sir... I cannot help questioning and considering..... I just put my own experiences into the pot with everything else and occasionally throw a few possibly rhetorical comments or questions out into the ether....

I am clear there is blame with the decision makers both before during and after... let's get that straight...

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[Thunder Bolt]

The cover ups and the initial planning mistakes are all up for equal legal redress surely?... why would the responsibilty for the deaths of those people take 2nd fiddle to the subsequent buracratic and political shenanigans?...

Read the verdict of unlawful killing. That should explain it to you. You say you have an enquiring mind. Instead of forming your opinion from North Stand Chat, read the inquest's findings.

 

[heathgate]

Read the verdict of unlawful killing. That should explain it to you. You say you have an enquiring mind. Instead of forming your opinion from North Stand Chat, read the inquest's findings.

Stop judging me .... if you read my posts, even you couldn't fail to notice that I don't tend to be swayed by others' posts... I do have my own opinion, and usually formed from browsing a range of sources.... that's not to say I always think I am right..... I won't however be brow beaten into meek and mild submission by those on here who certainly do think their opinion is somehow superior.

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[Bold Seagull]

The cover ups and the initial planning mistakes are all up for equal legal redress surely?... why would the responsibilty for the deaths of those people take 2nd fiddle to the subsequent buracratic and political shenanigans?...

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Of course, but you seem to be saying who'd you target first - in a couple of previous posts including the one I quoted. Equal legal redress contradicts what you've previously said.

 

[heathgate]

Of course, but you seem to be saying who'd you target first - in a couple of previous posts including the one I quoted. Equal legal redress contradicts what you've previously said.

Equal didn't mean time sensitive. .. simply that you have two clear lines of prosecution. .. 1) the mistakes that led directly to the deaths... and 2) the cover ups. .... not in any particular order...but different in their desired objectives and outcomes.

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[lawros left foot]

I don't know if anything has been posted about it on this thread,but I sincerely believe that all Police Officers,and maybe all public employees should be forbidden from joining, or belonging to the Freemasons. It may have had no baring on Hillsboro, but it remains a secret society, and the scope for corruption, must be multiplied by membership

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Stop judging me .... if you read my posts, even you couldn't fail to notice that I don't tend to be swayed by others' posts... I do have my own opinion, and usually formed from browsing a range of sources.... that's not to say I always think I am right..... I won't however be brow beaten into meek and mild submission by those on here who certainly do think their opinion is somehow superior.

Have I touched a nerve? I haven't said a word about you or judged you. I asked you to read the inquest's findings and then form your opinion. The coroner's inquest has found there were no ticketless fans, and the fans were not to blame. You are debating from a false position.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't know if anything has been posted about it on this thread,but I sincerely believe that all Police Officers,and maybe all public employees should be forbidden from joining, or belonging to the Freemasons. It may have had no baring on Hillsboro, but it remains a secret society, and the scope for corruption, must be multiplied by membership

I couldn't agree more. The FA and police are riddled with it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I was watching the ten o'clock news tonight, and found out that some of the families were under surveillance whilst they were campaigning. What on earth did the police do that for? I can only think it was intimidation.

And the evidence supporting that claim is where?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And the evidence supporting that claim is where?

Evidence given in the coroner's inquest.

 

[heathgate]

Have I touched a nerve? I haven't said a word about you or judged you. I asked you to read the inquest's findings and then form your opinion. The coroner's inquest has found there were no ticketless fans, and the fans were not to blame. You are debating from a false position.

Ha... touched a nerve... get over yourself.... (ref to forming opinion from NSC, ring a bell at all?)

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[Thunder Bolt]

Ha... touched a nerve... get over yourself.... (ref to forming opinion from NSC, ring a bell at all?)

That's how you've read my post. If you had formed your opinion from Nsc, you'd fall in with the majority who believe there were no ticketless fans.

 

[sydney]

How many ticketless fans turned up that day and were outside the ground ?

none apparently .....and to suggest otherwise will have you being called out all over the place as a knobhead.....apparently. i have a lot of scouse mates in perth , i have two mates who were at hillsboro that day.......the story they tell is contrary to what is being discussed here.......and no i'm not going to comment on this any more because people are going to start throwing their nappies around and it's gonna end up getting stupid.....the findings have been made....the door is now open for compensation claims to be made and settled and the families involved will have some sort of closure......end of.

 

[aolstudios]

I couldn't agree more. The FA and police are riddled with it.

Yep. It was a requirement for promotion in Sussex police in the 80's

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yep. It was a requirement for promotion in Sussex police in the 80's

I had a relative, who was the FA secretary for Sussex in the 80s, who was Lodge Master.

 

[aolstudios]

I had a relative, who was the FA secretary for Sussex in the 80s, who was Lodge Master.

Pretty much compulsory in many influential walks of life. Ridiculous situation