Hillsborough verdict: Fans unlawfully killed

[portlock seagull]

As best as I can work out, there is something there about Brighton pitch invasions, probably referring to the protests during the Archer years, but could also refer to that Orient game, I suppose. This is somehow being linked to fences being used in the 80s because of all the pitch invasions (something which Liverpool has never, apparently, been guilty of). Or was there some other pitch invasion involving us that was before my time?

Then there seems to be something about Australian views of things in Britain being different to the views of people in Britain. Mentioning the BBC and Savile, (with the implication being the BBC controlled what British people saw, whereas they couldn't control what the Australians saw). I'm not entirely sure how this links to the conversation. Is/was Danny-Boy in Australia and suggesting he is seeing/saw things we're not privy to with regard to Hillsbrough/the latest investigation? Does he think Portlock Seagull is in Australia and seeing/saw things that are warping his view of Hillsbrough/the latest investigation?

I concluded it was drinking time down under. No idea what he's blithering on about. Left him with a recipe to help soak up the alcohol.

 

[Stato]

But of course Albion fans have no guilty consciences over crowd invasions disrupting football games, have they?

Have I gone mad or are you really insinuating that Albion pitch invasions in 1997 could have been a contributory factor to fencing being in place at Hillsborough eight years earlier?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As best as I can work out, there is something there about Brighton pitch invasions, probably referring to the protests during the Archer years, but could also refer to that Orient game, I suppose. This is somehow being linked to fences being used in the 80s because of all the pitch invasions (something which Liverpool has never, apparently, been guilty of). Or was there some other pitch invasion involving us that was before my time?

Then there seems to be something about Australian views of things in Britain being different to the views of people in Britain. Mentioning the BBC and Savile, (with the implication being the BBC controlled what British people saw, whereas they couldn't control what the Australians saw). I'm not entirely sure how this links to the conversation. Is/was Danny-Boy in Australia and suggesting he is seeing/saw things we're not privy to with regard to Hillsbrough/the latest investigation? Does he think Portlock Seagull is in Australia and seeing/saw things that are warping his view of Hillsbrough/the latest investigation?

Danny-Boy lives in Seaford as far as I can make out.

 

[The Albion Roar]

As best as I can work out, there is something there about Brighton pitch invasions, probably referring to the protests during the Archer years, but could also refer to that Orient game, I suppose. This is somehow being linked to fences being used in the 80s because of all the pitch invasions (something which Liverpool has never, apparently, been guilty of). Or was there some other pitch invasion involving us that was before my time?

Then there seems to be something about Australian views of things in Britain being different to the views of people in Britain. Mentioning the BBC and Savile, (with the implication being the BBC controlled what British people saw, whereas they couldn't control what the Australians saw). I'm not entirely sure how this links to the conversation. Is/was Danny-Boy in Australia and suggesting he is seeing/saw things we're not privy to with regard to Hillsbrough/the latest investigation? Does he think Portlock Seagull is in Australia and seeing/saw things that are warping his view of Hillsbrough/the latest investigation?

Thought as much.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I'm confused, are you now saying you are 'The Truth' who used to post ballcocks on here regularly

No Way.

I originally posted as "Danny Wilson" until someone thought I really was THAT Danny Wilson. Then changed to "Danny-Boy" with its cinematic resonance.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Have I gone mad or are you really insinuating that Albion pitch invasions in 1997 could have been a contributory factor to fencing being in place at Hillsborough eight years earlier?

To be fair Albion pitch invasions were not limited to 1997, were they?

My references to Australia were linked to Perth Seagull's comments about what Liverpool supporters had told him about their activities back in the day. I spent a year travelling in Oz and NZ in 1991/2 and was struck in both countries by the number of stories I heard about scandals back in the "Mother Country" that somehow we here had not been made aware of, in particular concerning a senior figure linked to the Heath government, and more prosaically a teacher in my father's school (a friend of a close family friend) who had been asked to leave his job because of his "over-friendly" approach to his pupils.

It also seemed to be common knowledge "down under" that in the 1970's the Nixon USA government tried to destabilise Socialist governments elected in so-called friendly countries like Australia (Gough Whitlam) and Germany (Willy Brandt). And of course Harold Wilson claimed our Secret Services were trying to oust him. So there's still a lot more conspiracies to learn "The Truth" about.

 

[Stato]

To be fair Albion pitch invasions were not limited to 1997, were they?

This weaselly insinuation needs further explanation.

 

[LlcoolJ]

To be fair Albion pitch invasions were not limited to 1997, were they?

My references to Australia were linked to Perth Seagull's comments about what Liverpool supporters had told him about their activities back in the day. I spent a year travelling in Oz and NZ in 1991/2 and was struck in both countries by the number of stories I heard about scandals back in the "Mother Country" that somehow we here had not been made aware of, in particular concerning a senior figure linked to the Heath government, and more prosaically a teacher in my father's school (a friend of a close family friend) who had been asked to leave his job because of his "over-friendly" approach to his pupils.

It also seemed to be common knowledge "down under" that in the 1970's the Nixon USA government tried to destabilise Socialist governments elected in so-called friendly countries like Australia (Gough Whitlam) and Germany (Willy Brandt). And of course Harold Wilson claimed our Secret Services were trying to oust him. So there's still a lot more conspiracies to learn "The Truth" about.

You really are a complete moron aren't you.

 

[Danny-Boy]

You really are a complete moron aren't you.

On the contrary most of my life I've been accused by morons as being too clever for my own good.

Since you liv in Sheffield perhaps you can comment unmoronically on what "The Truth" about Hillsborough was. And how many times over the history of the Goldstone that games were halted by pitch invasions.

I at least was present to witness the 1997 "incident" in the 4-4 v. Orient.

 

[LlcoolJ]

On the contrary most of my life I've been accused by morons as being too clever for my own good.

Since you liv in Sheffield perhaps you can comment unmoronically on what "The Truth" about Hillsborough was. And how many times over the history of the Goldstone that games were halted by pitch invasions.

I at least was present to witness the 1997 "incident" in the 4-4 v. Orient.

The truth has been published in great detail. It took 27 years for it to finally come out. Perhaps you should read a bit more instead of looking at conspiracy theory websites.

No more troll food from me though.

 

[The Albion Roar]

On the contrary most of my life I've been accused by morons as being too clever for my own good.

Which, as morons, they wouldn't know whether you were clever or not.

Since you liv in Sheffield perhaps you can comment unmoronically on what "The Truth" about Hillsborough was. And how many times over the history of the Goldstone that games were halted by pitch invasions.

I at least was present to witness the 1997 "incident" in the 4-4 v. Orient.

The truth has come out. You just refuse to believe it.

To conflate Hillsborough with the Albion protests of 96-97 is pretty repugnant.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Which, as morons, they wouldn't know whether you were clever or not.



The truth has come out. You just refuse to believe it.

To conflate Hillsborough with the Albion protests of 96-97 is pretty repugnant.

I don't refuse to believe "the Truth" per se.

I just happen to think that whilst the behaviour of certain fans on the day was open to criticism, that has been forgotten or disregarded in the seeming need now to scapegoat the South Yorks police.

In the same vein, no doubt Orgreave will now be replayed whilst the behaviour of NUM to rebel miners who refused to strike in the Nottingham coalfields and elsewhere will also be conveniently ignored. To replay the 1980's as it was, you have to remember what a hated and despised figure "King Arthur" Scargill was.

I pointed out re the behaviour of Albion crowds in 1996-7, that it was THAT sort of behaviour which had led to the original decision to fence off grounds like Hillsborough in the first place. If there had been no fencing, probably there would have been no deaths. The fault of the police in the first instance, and the FA and the stadium owners, was not to foresee how opening the exit gates would cause the fatal congestion which ensued.

 

[Acker79]

I pointed out re the behaviour of Albion crowds in 1996-7, that it was THAT sort of behaviour which had led to the original decision to fence off grounds like Hillsborough in the first place.

No it wasn't.

The sort of behaviour being displayed by Albion fans in 96-7 was protest behaviour. It was purposeful disruption of matches, that served a 'political' point driven by unique circumstances. Our actions would not be viewed as typical, and needing of nationwide action.

The 'sort of behaviour' that led to fences being introduced was random, anarchic troublemaking, that was springing up unpredictably at a lot of clubs and would be viewed as needing action on a nationwide level.

 

[The Albion Roar]

I don't refuse to believe "the Truth" per se.

I just happen to think that whilst the behaviour of certain fans on the day was open to criticism, that has been forgotten or disregarded in the seeming need now to scapegoat the South Yorks police.

Utter drivel.

South Yorkshire Police are being blamed because they are to blame. Anything else has no meaning.

In the same vein, no doubt Orgreave will now be replayed whilst the behaviour of NUM to rebel miners who refused to strike in the Nottingham coalfields and elsewhere will also be conveniently ignored. To replay the 1980's as it was, you have to remember what a hated and despised figure "King Arthur" Scargill was.

The police committed perjury. That's a fact, and has been through the courts to prove that. Aside from that, this statement has no meaning either.

I pointed out re the behaviour of Albion crowds in 1996-7, that it was THAT sort of behaviour which had led to the original decision to fence off grounds like Hillsborough in the first place. If there had been no fencing, probably there would have been no deaths. The fault of the police in the first instance, and the FA and the stadium owners, was not to foresee how opening the exit gates would cause the fatal congestion which ensued.

Fences were brought in because of ongoing violence - usually between rival fans. There was no violence between fans at The Goldstone 96-97. You're re-writing history. To conflate the two is disgustingly repugnant. And wrong.

The fault of the police in the first instance, and the FA and the stadium owners, was not to foresee how opening the exit gates would cause the fatal congestion which ensued.

The fault of the police was manyfold. You just refuse to believe it.

 

[BadFish]

I don't refuse to believe "the Truth" per se.

I just happen to think that whilst the behaviour of certain fans on the day was open to criticism, that has been forgotten or disregarded in the seeming need now to scapegoat the South Yorks police.

In the same vein, no doubt Orgreave will now be replayed whilst the behaviour of NUM to rebel miners who refused to strike in the Nottingham coalfields and elsewhere will also be conveniently ignored. To replay the 1980's as it was, you have to remember what a hated and despised figure "King Arthur" Scargill was.

I pointed out re the behaviour of Albion crowds in 1996-7, that it was THAT sort of behaviour which had led to the original decision to fence off grounds like Hillsborough in the first place. If there had been no fencing, probably there would have been no deaths. The fault of the police in the first instance, and the FA and the stadium owners, was not to foresee how opening the exit gates would cause the fatal congestion which ensued.

In the face of evidence presented at inquiry after inquiry and the latest ruling in favour of a massive underdog which is a huge embarrassment to the vested interest of the status quo. You choose to go with some vague notion that in fact the lies printed in The Sun (from which the editor has admitted said lies and apologised for the story) were true but have now been forgotten or disregarded in an attempt to scapegoat the South Yorkshire Police.

Lets disregard the forgotten bit because that is just stupid to the power of 1000.

What evidence makes you think that evidence has been disregarded? Surely the South Yorkshire Police, the government and the FA in their attempts to clear their names would have made sure that this evidence would have been bought up in the enquiry? Perhaps you could shed some light on what this evidence is?

Would you also elaborate on why after 27 years someone (who?) has decided to make a scapegoat of the South Yorkshire Police?

 

[BadFish]

In the face of evidence presented at inquiry after inquiry and the latest ruling in favour of a massive underdog which is a huge embarrassment to the vested interest of the status quo. You choose to go with some vague notion that in fact the lies printed in The Sun (from which the editor has admitted said lies and apologised for the story) were true but have now been forgotten or disregarded in an attempt to scapegoat the South Yorkshire Police.

Lets disregard the forgotten bit because that is just stupid to the power of 1000.

What evidence makes you think that evidence has been disregarded? Surely the South Yorkshire Police, the government and the FA in their attempts to clear their names would have made sure that this evidence would have been bought up in the enquiry? Perhaps you could shed some light on what this evidence is?

Would you also elaborate on why after 27 years someone (who?) has decided to make a scapegoat of the South Yorkshire Police?

Give that the evidence presented in this lastest Inquiry is not enough to persuade you to change your mind about this, I am interested to know what would?

 

[Danny-Boy]

No it wasn't.

The sort of behaviour being displayed by Albion fans in 96-7 was protest behaviour. It was purposeful disruption of matches, that served a 'political' point driven by unique circumstances. Our actions would not be viewed as typical, and needing of nationwide action.

The 'sort of behaviour' that led to fences being introduced was random, anarchic troublemaking, that was springing up unpredictably at a lot of clubs and would be viewed as needing action on a nationwide level.

So you "purposely disrupted" the referee and Butch Wilkins...and didn't Scotty McGleish also get "disrupted"?

Solely because Orient were winning the game at the time. But you scraped a draw. Which kept you in the League.

 

[sydney]

So you "purposely disrupted" the referee and Butch Wilkins...and didn't Scotty McGleish also get "disrupted"?

Solely because Orient were winning the game at the time. But you scraped a draw. Which kept you in the League.

why don't you piss off now....?? serious question....really...??

 

[Acker79]

So you "purposely disrupted" the referee and Butch Wilkins...and didn't Scotty McGleish also get "disrupted"?

Solely because Orient were winning the game at the time. But you scraped a draw. Which kept you in the League.

Ok ,that one example wasn't about planned protest, but it was steeped in frustration and anger at the situation in which the club found itself at the time, not the threat of relegation, but the ownership, and not indicative of behaviour that needed nationwide action.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/AdrianTempany/status/879723505536905216

[tweet]879723505536905216[/tweet]