Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Has Cameron blown it with the EU negotiations ?
- Thread starter happypig
- Start date
burnee54
East Upper Hermit
I guess Dodgy Dave will have to lose more than two ballot boxes to swing this one his way.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
We've been a thorn in their side since Thatcher. God knows the insults that Mitterand, Chirac, Santer, Prodi et al have thrown at us over the years because of our bloody-minded intransigence on EU matters.
come on...
This is what everyone has been saying. It's like the Scottish referendum - once in a generation. The referendum happens, the result is final.
burnee54
East Upper Hermit
Do you mean like they did in Ireland?
Made clear by whom? Are you telling me that politicians never go back on anything?
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
And Denmark.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
A deal about to be STITCHED up till it UNRAVELS sometime over the weekend
Generalisations again . . . . I'm not an 'outer' and annoy most 'proper' lefties, even though I vote labour. Cameron has done a fair job of attempting to accomodate an element of his party while directing the good ship UK towards staying in. In this respect only he appears to have failed. Largely because his goal is impossible. If he gets his deal approved by a yes vote, then I will give him massive credit. But his party will have a tough job coalescing round a victorious leader who has won with plenty of his cabinet campaigning against.... him.
Still, if all this does transpire the Tories will be fine because Jezza et al will not be able to make any advantage out of this. Fine . . . but split.
Yet again, Scotland has not disintegrated despite all their MPS being in favour of independence while though the country voted 'no' to being . . . a country.
Politics is a funny old bird . . . . at the moment a bit like a slighty squiffy aunt who is giving you the impression she might be on for a bit of how's your father, and you're not sure whether to stick or twist
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Generalisations again . . . . I'm not an 'outer' and annoy most 'proper' lefties, even though I vote labour. Cameron has done a fair job of attempting to accomodate an element of his party while directing the good ship UK towards staying in. In this respect only he appears to have failed. Largely because his goal is impossible. If he gets his deal approved by a yes vote, then I will give him massive credit. But his party will have a tough job coalescing round a victorious leader who has won with plenty of his cabinet campaigning against.... him.
Still, if all this does transpire the Tories will be fine because Jezza et al will not be able to make any advantage out of this. Fine . . . but split.
Yet again, Scotland has not disintegrated despite all their MPS being in favour of independence while though the country voted 'no' to being . . . a country.
Politics is a funny old bird . . . . at the moment a bit like a slighty squiffy aunt who is giving you the impression she might be on for a bit of how's your father, and you're not sure whether to stick or twist
Genralisation for sure. i was refering to those lefties and outers on the thread on here, ie the vocal ones, and i am pretty sure my "generalisation" relfects the normal distribution curve. Youre an outlier
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Politics is a funny old bird . . . . at the moment a bit like a slighty squiffy aunt who is giving you the impression she might be on for a bit of how's your father, and you're not sure whether to stick or twist
Wonderful analogy! At the moment I'm caught between two extremes, on one hand I've lost interest in what the government and opposition are doing with the country because nothing ever seems to change but on the other hand the personalities and political conniving are fascinating.
studio150
Well-known member
I think the Clash were ahead of their time and have the answer to this issue:
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
So we should go
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
So we should go
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
I am sure we will be fine in or out. They will jsut be different paths.
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
I applaud your belief in them but i am 100% sure if the uk voted out that there would be serious moves to keep the country in. Too much vested interest
AmexRuislip
Retired Spy 🕵️♂️
Have just been reading the YouGov analysis of the EU referendum, dated Sept 2015.
Was quite intrigued on the description of perceptions.
Quote:
[h=1]Perceptions[/h] It would be wrong to focus solely upon issues and arguments though. People are not logical calculating machines who vote upon a careful balancing of rival arguments, what determines who we vote for is far more complicated. In general elections it is a mix of broad perceptions of the parties, who is competent, who we identify with and who reflects our values, and of the party leaders themselves. In a referendum we are not picking a party or politicians to govern us, but perceptions of values and identities are still important, it still matters what we think we are saying about ourselves when we vote.
Asked about the typical supporter of EU membership and the typical opponent, supporters of the EU are perceived as being well-informed, sensible, open-minded, liberal. Those who support leaving the EU tend to perceive it’s supporters as being out of touch, part of the establishment, liberal and left-wing.
The words most associated with supporting British exit from the EU are sensible, right-wing, ignorant, ordinary, stuck-in the past. Those who would vote to leave see those who agree with them as sensible, ordinary, well-informed and seeing things others don’t. Those who support EU membership see those opposed as ignorant, stuck in the past, bigoted and out-of-touch
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/22/eu-referendum-state-public-opinion/
Was quite intrigued on the description of perceptions.
Quote:
[h=1]Perceptions[/h] It would be wrong to focus solely upon issues and arguments though. People are not logical calculating machines who vote upon a careful balancing of rival arguments, what determines who we vote for is far more complicated. In general elections it is a mix of broad perceptions of the parties, who is competent, who we identify with and who reflects our values, and of the party leaders themselves. In a referendum we are not picking a party or politicians to govern us, but perceptions of values and identities are still important, it still matters what we think we are saying about ourselves when we vote.
Asked about the typical supporter of EU membership and the typical opponent, supporters of the EU are perceived as being well-informed, sensible, open-minded, liberal. Those who support leaving the EU tend to perceive it’s supporters as being out of touch, part of the establishment, liberal and left-wing.
The words most associated with supporting British exit from the EU are sensible, right-wing, ignorant, ordinary, stuck-in the past. Those who would vote to leave see those who agree with them as sensible, ordinary, well-informed and seeing things others don’t. Those who support EU membership see those opposed as ignorant, stuck in the past, bigoted and out-of-touch
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/22/eu-referendum-state-public-opinion/
Bob!
Coffee Buyer
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,633
This is how I'm swaying at the moment
Good. No way back in would suit me fine. Of course, if the turkeys vote for Christmas and we stay in, any political party can include another referendum in its manifesto and if we in the UK decide to have another referendum, a referendum we shall have..
Put your faith in democracy my cynical compatriot.
So you're going to vote in and then f*** off and leave us all in the s**t, just because you think it's good for trade and business?
If you're really leaving, and don't give a s**t, at least have the common decency not to try to contribute to imposing your views on the rest of us, who do give a s**t. Anyone with a shred of decency in those circumstances wouldn't vote.