Has Cameron blown it with the EU negotiations ?

[larus]

I think that the country deserves the chance to decide if we want to be part of a planned superstate. This is where the technocrats want to take Europe.

The problems that CMD has had in trying to negotiate are a symptom of all that's wrong. All countries look after their own interests. France objects to us being able to opt out of ever closer union. Greece links these negotiations to their border issues. The whole European project is a joke. Christ, they can't even get accounts audited.

The original vote in 1974 was for a European Economic Community, not a superstate and powers with unelected technocrats.

On CMD, I think he's weak and it shows how poor the political class is at the moment in all parties. Total crap.

 

[pb21]

I think Dopey Dave thought he'd be in coalition so could drop a referendum as part of the coalition compromise.

You do have to think that this promise was just put in to try and nab some potential UKIP voters as they were worried about Labour. I suspect they wouldn't have included this otherwise?

 

[Triggaaar]

So lots of you here think he's a failure, and he's messed this up. How many of you voted for the Tories in the election?

 

[Hamilton]

I think if they're not already they will be within days. I've never known a time in politics when all 3 parties are in meltdown. The Lib Dems of 7 or 8 years ago would have been all over Cameron and Corbyn, it is a crying shame that there was such an over- reaction to the u-turn on tuition fees.

A decent Lib Dem party keeps both of the other two on their toes, what we have now is a political vacuum.

A vacuum that will be filled by all sorts of fringe fools perhaps?

That said, there appear to be enough lunatics in the Labour and Tory parties.

The SNP must be laughing their heads off.

What an effing mess politics is.

 

[seagullwedgee]

Hear me out. I honestly think Cameron is playing a clever blinder. Deep down, unless he gets fundamental change, he actually wants to leave. He is currently manipulating everything, his own party, his European colleagues, the media, to make it look like he is giving it evrything, all night negotiations etc, to get the deal. He knows he won't get a good enough deal, and I think he will actually campaign to leave, and will win a landslide with that.mthe only possible downside is political infighting in the Tory party, but he doesn't care about that, he's leaving anyway. All he really really wants deep down is border control and migration control, and he will get it. It's just not a politically correct one to go straight out and say that's what you want, so he's actually going there smartly by arriving at it from a different direction, and appearing to be politically correct.

Honestly. Bring it on.

 

[Hampster Gull]

If the country votes OUT i suspect the EU will suddenly come up with a good offer. Crazy days

 

[pb21]

Hear me out. I honestly think Cameron is playing a clever blinder. Deep down, unless he gets fundamental change, he actually wants to leave. He is currently manipulating everything, his own party, his European colleagues, the media, to make it look like he is giving it evrything, all night negotiations etc, to get the deal. He knows he won't get a good enough deal, and I think he will actually campaign to leave, and will win a landslide with that.mthe only possible downside is political infighting in the Tory party, but he doesn't care about that, he's leaving anyway. All he really really wants deep down is border control and migration control, and he will get it. It's just not a politically correct one to go straight out and say that's what you want, so he's actually going there smartly by arriving at it from a different direction, and appearing to be politically correct.

Honestly. Bring it on.

I think Dave follows the money and the money wants to stay in Europe.

 

[Triggaaar]

Hear me out. I honestly think Cameron is playing a clever blinder. Deep down, unless he gets fundamental change, he actually wants to leave. He is currently manipulating everything, his own party, his European colleagues, the media, to make it look like he is giving it evrything, all night negotiations etc, to get the deal. He knows he won't get a good enough deal, and I think he will actually campaign to leave, and will win a landslide with that.mthe only possible downside is political infighting in the Tory party, but he doesn't care about that, he's leaving anyway. All he really really wants deep down is border control and migration control, and he will get it. It's just not a politically correct one to go straight out and say that's what you want, so he's actually going there smartly by arriving at it from a different direction, and appearing to be politically correct.

Honestly. Bring it on.

If you're right (you're probably not) he's played a blinder.

 

[Hamilton]

So lots of you here think he's a failure, and he's messed this up. How many of you voted for the Tories in the election?

Not me.

I think he has bet the ranch and it looks like the other EU players are going to call him.

 

[ROSM]

If the country votes OUT i suspect the EU will suddenly come up with a good offer. Crazy days

The French and belgians want the agreement to be binding that if we vote no then there is no going back.

 

[melias shoes]

He tried, will probably fail on what little he was after, we now know, if as suspected, and have proof that other EU members will probably not budge now or much in the future.
A wake up call.

The Eastern Europeans not budging. Seems they like taking more than they offer.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Many of whom will be jockeying for position if Dave comes back and says "Back me or sack me".

It's entirely possible that the tories could be torn apart by this issue.

Pretty sure it's been said multiple times that the Tories will be able to campaign which ever way they see fit regarding the in / out vote once he has completed the negotiations in Europe to try to get the best deal he can. Not sure why that would mean Cameron has to go or why the Tories would be torn apart by this issue, i can't see a back me or sack me situation occurring over this.

The EU members don't really need to make any compromises as what is there meets a lot of what they want out of being a part of the EU and feel that the UK arn't that committed to their aims and are therefore trying to change things by threats when they are only half committed to the principals and ideals of the Union. - the fact that so many are willing to vote leave in this country kind of backs up that view

I'd imagine most in this country are only really interested in a trade zone with the EU and arn't interested in political aims that other countries in the EU want. A hang over from the days of Empire when we were a superpower and therefore can't envision a country where other European countries can have an input in how we run things here (EU wide agreements, etc) We've had full autonomy in how we run things here, making our own policies and laws and suddenly confronted by the prospect of Brussels, etc 'bringing these in against our wishes and our being powerless to stop it (even if they do benefit us as a population)

 

[Triggaaar]

If the country votes OUT i suspect the EU will suddenly come up with a good offer.

Then that's what we should do.

There are pros and cons with being part of the EU, but the thing that bothers me the most if that we're treated like shit and it's unfair on us. We Brits like fairness, and hate corruption, and we're taken by the EU for fools.

 

[Notters]

I was happy with Europe as it was :shrug"

 

[Ernest]

What a total and utter mess this has all become

 

[Ernest]

If the country votes OUT i suspect the EU will suddenly come up with a good offer. Crazy days

You do REALISE if we vote OUT that is it, there won't be any renegotiations

 

[sparkie]

If Cameron resigns over the mess he's made of these negotiations, it'll put the EU referendum back until after the leadership elections and a new PM is in place.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Makes no odds. The Establishment will not countenance the UK voting to leave - so we'll be staying in, by hook or by crook.

Nothing like a big fat conspiracy theory. We've had one Outer muttering about vote-rigging. What's your predication for the Naughty Stakes?

 

[Butch Willykins]

All the last 36hrs has done is give plenty of ammo to the 'out' campaign.

2/1 to leave looks like a good bet at the moment!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Michael Gove has just 'come out' as a 'leave' campaigner. That should put a stop to the 'heavy sway' to leave momentum. All we need now is Jezza to 'oppose' Cameron's call to stay in, and there will be a heavy sway of total confusion and uncertainty about the issue. Hang on . . .

As an outer and a Gove despiser him join the out side won't me make me change my vote. This is far more important than who I end up siding with.