Harty SOCKS it to Barber in the Worthing Herald

[Pavilionaire]

Sorry but IMHO none of that counts for jack5hit. Intrastructure? Meh! Training facilities? Double Meh! (players just came back from a 2 week international break looking knackered FFS). Club takes its eye off the ball on the playing side at its peril.

If you're a decent League 1 striker and are being offered similar money from two clubs you're going to sign for the club with state of the art facilities and not the club that trains in a park and gets changed in a shed.

Extending your career by just one season could be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, so players would be stupid to disregard this aspect.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Harty is welcome to his opinion, and I think he articulated well in that article. However I do not share his viewpoint. The challenges facing this club in the championship, at the Amex are quite different to those faced by the Albion at the Withdean. Barber imo is doing a decent job but he is clearly caught between a rock and a hard place as he has to manage the running of the Amex and a Championship wage bill. Barber has nothing to do with identifying players for the club so to blame him for our on the pitch ills seems unfair.

The impatience for the PL from both the stands AND the boardroom do not change the financial reality that barber has to deal with. At the moment it looks like the current signings have not come off, although I would say we have not seen enough of Baldock to judge him, jury still out for me. Each player we get in is a gamble and if they don't come off then everyone looks bad, if as in the case of Ulloa it pays off everyone looks like a genius.

Sadly we aren't good at the moment, is it really beyond us as fanbase to actually try and stand by the team as we try and work through it. It seems now that every time we face adversity people are just ready to through their hands up in their and moan their arses off instead of actually backing the team.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Harty - wouldn't mind your thoughts on my posts on this thread and also on Lua Lua being given a go up front?

Cheers again for the Gulls Eye years. Truly a great part of my formative years reading Gulls Eye. I wouldnt mind knowing if ou have any T shirts left? In particular the "they think its all over.." and the "Cooper & Crumplin Deadly wingers" one?

WCP I post as Lenny Rider so see above re British managers. Thanks for your kind words re Gulls Eye.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If you're a decent League 1 striker and are being offered similar money from two clubs you're going to sign for the club with state of the art facilities and not the club that trains in a park and gets changed in a shed.

Never did the Withdean squad any harm. Some might say it helped build the team spirit that took us far further than we had any right to hope for.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I am with THPP on this. You cannot compare our current support to other clubs. We went from 6500 ish to 28,000 in a very small time frame. If the club are banking on the great facilities to stem the flow of fans who will give up on their season tickets if we end up in League One to only 20% I think they may be shocked. I suggest it will go down by more than that even if we manage to stay in this division without getting back around the playoffs. I really hope we don't find out what will happen by going into League One next season.

I reckon Brighton crowds are more fickle than most..

I'm not comparing our current support to other clubs, I'm simply saying that relegated clubs typically experience a drop-off of 15-25% in support after relegation and I don't see anything to make Brighton a special case, so I reckon we'd lose 20%. High prices will make people leave, but great facilities will make others stay, I suspect the two things will cancel each other out.

People talk of League One with trepidation, but the reality is the wages are massively less. Big clubs who drop to League 1 rarely stay there for more than a season or two, and if we dropped back down we would be one of those big clubs able to tempt decent players to join us. I'm not saying relegation is insignificant, but there have been quite a few clubs that have gone from League 1 to the Prem within 5 years just as there are a good number of clubs stuck in the Championship on a treadmill.

I'd certainly give League 1 at least a season before considering jacking it in.

 

[1234andcounting]

Chris Hughton, Steve Clarke, Alan Curbishley, Tim Sherwood even Tony Pulis all out of work and exactly what we are looking for.

Sorry Harty but is there any evidence whatsoever that any of these are "exactly what we are looking for". Steve Clarke and Tim Sherwood unproven at Championship level. Chris Hughton would appear to be one of those managers who burns brightly at first but soon loses the flame. Curbs would have found a job by now if he wanted one and is, in all probability past his sell by date.

Pulis has a good track record but he spends a lot too..

And to repeat what many posters have said before, Mullers and Gus were untried as managers and didn't do too badly and even dear old Barry Lloyd had no league management experience and took us to promotion.

Your fact checker for the column must have to work hard for his or her money.

 

[Working class pride]

WCP I post as Lenny Rider so see above re British managers. Thanks for your kind words re Gulls Eye.

Yes I know mate. I meant more about the Albion hardcore, I think it has to be considered n the context of the serial decline since 1984 onwards

 

[Ernest]

y and even dear old Barry Lloyd had no league management experience and took us to promotion.

Your fact checker for the column must have to work hard for his or her money.

Having got us relegated with the most pitiful football ever seen at the Goldstone with a losing run that makes Hyppia look like Guardiola

 

[Giraffe]

I am mostly in the Harty camp on this one. I actually said aloud "three pages" when reading the programme on Saturday. He should know to keep it punchy if he wants to get a point across.

Secondly regardless of what the facts may be the perception amongst many is that the club are focusing more on the matchday experience than they are on the football. I reckon we have a hard core of about 15,000 that will go week in week out now. But the extra 10,000 or so won't unless we are at least reasonably succesful. Those 10,000 are now picking and chosing their games, mainly because it is too expensive for the quality of football currently being produced. At the same time I suspect the club are not making as much money out of catering (the core add on to the match day experience) as they used to do due to the poor but expensive service. Focus on the pitch and on the catering and you'd win over most "customers". Forget about the rest of the "matchday experience because it really doesn't matter that much to the majority of people.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Every manager to get promotion in the last three seasons from the Championship has been British. Obviously there are counters to this; they represent a higher proportion anyway. Zola VERY nearly went up and we got to the playoffs with a Uruguayan and a Spaniard. Karanka SHOULD get Boro up this season. However it would only be a fact you could ignore if EVERY other manager for the whole three seasons had been British too. I don't think it has anything to do with being xenophobic but more to do with communication and familiarity with the players you have.

Sami is the "least foreign" of our recent managers however having played over here for so long and having excellent English communication skills.

I don't know if I have a point other than saying that the English manager thing is proven but not necessarily at our club

I am struggling to think of a non British manager to get promoted out of the Championship except Di Matteo , who managed at MK before.

 

[Skylar]

Paul Barber is a complete and utter joke. Sounds like a politician.

Coup

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In between.

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Sacked.

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Brighton.

No Paul, we are in reality but you're not you utter clown, and where is this striker that we're still waiting for?

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Well said Mr Baine but Barber still misses the point.

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Barber loves his £500k plus salary and will get it in division one. The bloke should take the plumb out his mouth and treat us as fans not costumers. Can't stand the bloke.

 

[Working class pride]

20000 plus for just oputside the relegation zone against Boro. thats pretty fabulous isnt it? Name other clubs who will match that and then you will see just how fantastic the support is

 

[Justice]

I feel the club are trying to cover their arse most of the time with FFP being blamed for most things Albion. I would rather they be honest and accept that Hypia was the wrong appointment and rectify things asap. I dont think the squad is that bad but the tactics are clearly not working IMO.

 

[glasfryn]

good article
what people do not realise is that Mr Barber is very good at smoke and mirrors

 

[GreersElbow]

I'm a bit confused by this article. It appears to infer that Barber is responsible for the results, that responsibility doesn't fall on Barber.

To everyone else in the ground, at times almost numbering 18,000, it’s a fad, a fair weather pursuit. If the Albion are winning and playing well, they will come, if they’re not, they will find something else to do.

And, in the current climate, to lose the majority of those ‘floating’ fans would be a financial disaster for the Albion.

And that’s the crux of the whole thing. At Withdean, with a decade of almost unrivalled success outside the Premier League, three championships and a play-off final win, the Albion had great players in a ramshackle stadium.

On the face of it, with what we’ve been served up with so far this season, it’s totally turned on its head. As Paul points out, the stadium is superb but you have to provide a decent team to play in it, otherwise people will stop coming, possibly in large numbers.

This here, completely distracts the main point he's trying to make; value for money doesn't mean anything if results are bad.

He then later says:

It all comes back down to the team. While I don’t like wishing unemployment on anybody, in my opinion, the only way forward long-term is to get a manager with a proven Championship pedigree. Preferably, and without wishing to sound xenophobic, someone British who is allowed to be the manager, rather than just a coach.

So what is it Harty? The team or the manager? Because everyone's pointed out multiple things multiple times.

1) Being caught out on the flanks which is stretching our defence
2) No creativity in the starting line up; McCourt only gets 20 mins, by which time we're chasing the game.
3) No width; full backs get up front but they get no service from the midfield.
4) Strikers with little to no service and isolated at front.

These aren't Barber's fault, they fall upon the manager. We have a team that can challenge, the reality is simple. People rather blame lack of spending or 'ambition' than the manager. Anyone who even suggests it's the manager's fault is simply then shouted down as being 'an idiot' 'attention seeking'.

Harty does make a point about the use of 'value for money argument' but the conclusion he forms is weak and appears to contradict himself.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

675 give or take.........


I didn't want to be appear to be racist or small minded but with the club on the cusp of a potential disaster I think someone from the UK would be best to rally the club both on and off the pitch.

Chris Hughton, Steve Clarke, Alan Curbishley, Tim Sherwood even Tony Pulis all out of work and exactly what we are looking for.

Why would ANY of them choose a relegation scrap at the bottom end of the Championship - they are only out of work because they want to join a Premier League club - which we are NOT. Offer any of them the job and they'll likely say ' thanks but Championship, I don't think so chum '.

Relegation to League 1 is NOT a disaster. F*** we've spent enough time in it to know that. In recent years, it's the HIGHEST level of football where we've actually won a trophy. Historicaly, it is the clubs 'baseline' for football achievement. It happens every season to someone, and it might be our turn this year - we are not somehow immune from failure.

Anything higher, including the last 3 seasons, has been, by our standards, successful / overachieving / a bloody miracle ( take your pick according to the wealth of the Chairman at that time ).

 

[GreersElbow]

Paul Barber is a complete and utter joke. Sounds like a politician.

Barber loves his £500k plus salary and will get it in division one. The bloke should take the plumb out his mouth and treat us as fans not costumers. Can't stand the bloke.

A fan is a customer. A customer is someone who purchases a good or service.

"Complete and utter joke" - really...in what way? I think you're just a bit bitter rather. What point is he actually missing..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

675 give or take.........


I didn't want to be appear to be racist or small minded but with the club on the cusp of a potential disaster I think someone from the UK would be best to rally the club both on and off the pitch.

Chris Hughton, Steve Clarke, Alan Curbishley, Tim Sherwood even Tony Pulis all out of work and exactly what we are looking for.

What makes you think any of those named would be interested in a struggling Championship club? Curbishley has been out of the game for too long and said he wouldn't manage below Prem level. I honestly can't see Pulis being interested and it's rumoured that Sherwood turned us down already.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

All true but I think long term fans thought that with the return of a proper ground and the Albion being on its feet that we might start for once to achieve our potential (never mind exceed it). People look to clubs with a championship sized support of 14000/15000 like palace and burnley and think, flipping heck, how come small clubs like that can do it but again the Albion with 26000 paying every week , are served up with this load of of tripe. And they have every right to think like that, but see my previous post, as we are not far apart in our views.

Clubs like Palace do it by going into administration again and again and again. That's not the way to run ANY Ltd Company, football club or not.

 

[GT49er]

To be fair to PB, his remit is the finance, which he seems to be doing OK - but he is the CEO, so ultimately, the buck stops there. Perhaps he needs to refresh the football matters team which is ultimately answerable to him - though whether that means Hyypia, Burke or Jones - or even the players, I don't know. No, I know we don't have an automatic right to be top of this division, or in the PL, but it's not going well at the moment, as anyone can see.