Harty SOCKS it to Barber in the Worthing Herald

[Working class pride]

I'm a lifetime supporter, in an Albion family. I just about remember the late 70s and division 1 years, But I watched the serial decline of the Albion from 1984 through to the present day. A season ticket holder as kid, a regular home and away until the last 6/7 years for various reasons. I don't however agree with Harty that 10,000 is the hard core. It was the hard core in the 1980s when Arsenal could play at home to 20,000 or Palace 14000 despite being 3rd in the top flight. It was the hardcore at Withdean for lower division football. But then in the 70s, 25000 was the hardcore and my family will remember playing Darlington to crowds of 30,000. Brighton have in my life time never been a club on the up, always on the down, except now and in the 1970's.

Yes the team is important, but the reality is that Brighton have in attendance crowds that match the Premier League and ticket sales bigger than top flight sides such as palace and even west brom. They far exceed the likes of Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday. So that is the club we have. Let us also divide up responsibility. Barber is responsible for finance and ticket sales. I have no idea how he is doing on finance but ticket sales are excellent. Burke and Hypia responsible for the playing side and they seem to have failed thus far, which does not make Barbers job any easier.

Reality is however that parachute payments mean that despite our crowds we have a smaller budget. Yes, I know, look at Burnley and Palace and I agree that the players have been dreadful. I was shocked how far the team had dipped when I saw them the other week. But lets face it, when did Brighton ever have a team that matched its support? 1910 with Charlie Webb. Since then, never even in the late 70s and early 80s. Brighton atre a club with a premier league support despite a lower league team. Pretty much has always been the way. I have faith that Bloom will change that, either with urke / Hypia or without.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Spot on and I really don't think Barber realises this.

Of course he realises this, FFS. He might be many of things people want to label him as, but Paul Barber's not a sodding idiot.

 

[Stato]

It surprises me that there are long term supporters like Ian and Paul Samrah that are coming out with complaints which if you boil them down to their essence are summed up as 'We are not winning. We should be winning.'

My first game was in 1979. It was 15 years since we had won anything and 22 years before we would next win anything.
We have been promoted to the top division once in 113 years.
Having a new stadium doesn't change the fact that we are always up against very stiff competition.
Sometimes you eat the bear sometimes the bear eats you.

 

[Scoffers]

I agree with some of what Harty says but I genuinely believe that Barber and Co feel that they are trying to put a team on the pitch that us supporters can be proud of. They haven't started well, but 46 games is a heck of a lot.

 

[GT49er]

Difficult to find anything to disagree with what Harty has written.

Sami talking about needing to bring in new players also makes it seem as if the management team has taken its eye off the ball as far as recruitment and the football side of things is concerned.

 

[Geriatric Seagull]

I quite agree with what much of Harty says. To me, this is not about new and old supporters. Yes, I've been watching the Albion for nearly sixty years so I can certainly claim to have seen good and bad times and experienced a great many highs and lows. No, it seems to me that the most important thing is for the club to do everything it can to keep its newer supporters, many if whom are seeing live professional football for the first time. They are the future of the club; they are the ones who, in years to come, will be doing as my late father did and as I have done in more recent times, will be taking their children to matches. Sadly, I think that message is currently falling on deaf ears. There appears to be little passion in the club at present - off the field it seems to be all about taking as much money as possible from the "customers" whilst on the pitch we have a failed manager who seems unable to produce a system which the very ordinary players he has been landed with are able to put into practice. Somebody, somehow needs to "shake it up" and fast!

 

[spanish flair]

Of course he realises this, FFS. He might be many of things people want to label him as, but Paul Barber's not a sodding idiot.

That is your opinion and sorry I don't agree, I think his background of being at Spurs and the FA where support is guaranteed, he has never witnessed as can happen here when the crowds have dropped dramatically as in the past.

 

[Working class pride]

It surprises me that there are long term supporters like Ian and Paul Samrah that are coming out with complaints which if you boil them down to their essence are summed up as 'We are not winning. We should be winning.'

My first game was in 1979. It was 15 years since we had won anything and 22 years before we would next win anything.
We have been promoted to the top division once in 113 years.
Having a new stadium doesn't change the fact that we are always up against very stiff competition.
Sometimes you eat the bear sometimes the bear eats you.

All true but I think long term fans thought that with the return of a proper ground and the Albion being on its feet that we might start for once to achieve our potential (never mind exceed it). People look to clubs with a championship sized support of 14000/15000 like palace and burnley and think, flipping heck, how come small clubs like that can do it but again the Albion with 26000 paying every week , are served up with this load of of tripe. And they have every right to think like that, but see my previous post, as we are not far apart in our views.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It surprises me that there are long term supporters like Ian and Paul Samrah that are coming out with complaints which if you boil them down to their essence are summed up as 'We are not winning. We should be winning.'

My first game was in 1979. It was 15 years since we had won anything and 22 years before we would next win anything.
We have been promoted to the top division once in 113 years.
Having a new stadium doesn't change the fact that we are always up against very stiff competition.
Sometimes you eat the bear sometimes the bear eats you.

Your viewpoint would be 100% valid were it not for the club declaring itself to be 'Premier League Ready' when the team looks far more likely to be heading for League One.

 

[Pavilionaire]

IMHO Harty's article just reinforces the very good point that the club can provide all the fancy facilities that the Fickle Floating Fans demand, but 'the hardcore support of 8,000-10,000' KNOW that as soon as the club take their eye off the ball on the playing side, the FFF will vanish as easily as they appeared.

I think that a very simplistic view. Fans don't simply drop off the radar when a club gets relegated; statistically the club could expect to see a 20% reduction in the home attendance if we were to get relegated because that the average nationally. So if 25,000 goes down to 20,000 then the "FFF" will still outnumber the hard core, even in League 1.

I actually think there's three layers of supporters, rather than the two alluded to above, and I think that middle layer is the largest of the lot, i.e. would draw the line at League 2 football but are still aware of how far the club has come, the ups and downs of the last 30 years and aren't about to cut and run just because the club suffers it's first real major set-back season since the regression under Micky Adams.

And in terms of just how bad it might get, what with the infrastructure and training facilities we've built you'd expect us to always be able to contend at League 1 level at the very least.

 

[bobby baxter]

It surprises me that there are long term supporters like Ian and Paul Samrah that are coming out with complaints which if you boil them down to their essence are summed up as 'We are not winning. We should be winning.'

My first game was in 1979. It was 15 years since we had won anything and 22 years before we would next win anything.
We have been promoted to the top division once in 113 years.
Having a new stadium doesn't change the fact that we are always up against very stiff competition.
Sometimes you eat the bear sometimes the bear eats you.

This !

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It surprises me that there are long term supporters like Ian and Paul Samrah that are coming out with complaints which if you boil them down to their essence are summed up as 'We are not winning. We should be winning.'

My first game was in 1979. It was 15 years since we had won anything and 22 years before we would next win anything.
We have been promoted to the top division once in 113 years.
Having a new stadium doesn't change the fact that we are always up against very stiff competition.
Sometimes you eat the bear sometimes the bear eats you.

Wise words

 

[Guinness Boy]

Every manager to get promotion in the last three seasons from the Championship has been British. Obviously there are counters to this; they represent a higher proportion anyway. Zola VERY nearly went up and we got to the playoffs with a Uruguayan and a Spaniard. Karanka SHOULD get Boro up this season. However it would only be a fact you could ignore if EVERY other manager for the whole three seasons had been British too. I don't think it has anything to do with being xenophobic but more to do with communication and familiarity with the players you have.

Sami is the "least foreign" of our recent managers however having played over here for so long and having excellent English communication skills.

I don't know if I have a point other than saying that the English manager thing is proven but not necessarily at our club

 

[Don Quixote]

Last 2 didn't seem to do too badly if you measure reaching play offs as success and had no experience of this league

Yeah I understand that, but Poyet did have some experience in the English lower leagues as an assistant, so it was natural for him to make the step up. Oscar was decent, but it proved too much for him so he resigned. I think it is fair to want someone with experience.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Its quite well written, for sure, but mildly ironic, that after taking PB to task for the length of his notes, this whole article is basically 1000 words, to say what he could have said in eight; "The current football is not value for money".


The thing about the nationality of the coach just makes him look small minded. Its also a complete nonsense. We got out-thought and out-fought by a Boro team last week, managed by a Spanish coach with zero 'Championship experience'. There are plenty of other examples. But then Harty knew that, anyway.

675 give or take.........


I didn't want to be appear to be racist or small minded but with the club on the cusp of a potential disaster I think someone from the UK would be best to rally the club both on and off the pitch.

Chris Hughton, Steve Clarke, Alan Curbishley, Tim Sherwood even Tony Pulis all out of work and exactly what we are looking for.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And in terms of just how bad it might get, what with the infrastructure and training facilities we've built you'd expect us to always be able to contend at League 1 level at the very least.

Sorry but IMHO none of that counts for jack5hit. Intrastructure? Meh! Training facilities? Double Meh! (players just came back from a 2 week international break looking knackered FFS). Club takes its eye off the ball on the playing side at its peril.

 

[Dick Head]

Tl;dr

 

[Ernest]

Every manager to get promotion in the last three seasons from the Championship has been British. Obviously there are counters to this; they represent a higher proportion anyway. Zola VERY nearly went up and we got to the playoffs with a Uruguayan and a Spaniard. Karanka SHOULD get Boro up this season. However it would only be a fact you could ignore if EVERY other manager for the whole three seasons had been British too. I don't think it has anything to do with being xenophobic but more to do with communication and familiarity with the players you have.

Sami is the "least foreign" of our recent managers however having played over here for so long and having excellent English communication skills.

I don't know if I have a point other than saying that the English manager thing is proven but not necessarily at our club

A FACT I pointed out AGES ago, do you think MUMBLING a few SOUNDBITES is EXCELLENT English communication SKILLS

 

[Icy Gull]

I think that a very simplistic view. Fans don't simply drop off the radar when a club gets relegated; statistically the club could expect to see a 20% reduction in the home attendance if we were to get relegated because that the average nationally. So if 25,000 goes down to 20,000 then the "FFF" will still outnumber the hard core, even in League 1.

I actually think there's three layers of supporters, rather than the two alluded to above, and I think that middle layer is the largest of the lot, i.e. would draw the line at League 2 football but are still aware of how far the club has come, the ups and downs of the last 30 years and aren't about to cut and run just because the club suffers it's first real major set-back season since the regression under Micky Adams.

And in terms of just how bad it might get, what with the infrastructure and training facilities we've built you'd expect us to always be able to contend at League 1 level at the very least.

I am with THPP on this. You cannot compare our current support to other clubs. We went from 6500 ish to 28,000 in a very small time frame. If the club are banking on the great facilities to stem the flow of fans who will give up on their season tickets if we end up in League One to only 20% I think they may be shocked. I suggest it will go down by more than that even if we manage to stay in this division without getting back around the playoffs. I really hope we don't find out what will happen by going into League One next season.

I reckon Brighton crowds are more fickle than most..

 

[Working class pride]

Harty - wouldn't mind your thoughts on my posts on this thread and also on Lua Lua being given a go up front?

Cheers again for the Gulls Eye years. Truly a great part of my formative years reading Gulls Eye. I wouldnt mind knowing if ou have any T shirts left? In particular the "they think its all over.." and the "Cooper & Crumplin Deadly wingers" one?