[Albion] Green Party attempt to ban cars in Central Brighton

[blue-shifted]

TBH, for me the 'climate' argument is (almost) irrelevant in this case. As you say any global environmental benefit we gain from banning cars in Brighton city centre can easily be undone by other choices we make. What is undoubtedly true though is that banning cars, indeed banning anything with wheels, will make Brighton a MUCH more pleasant place to walk round. Will it be disastrous for the city? Well as I said on the Valley Gardens thread that well-known ultra-left wing Sussex hotbed of progressive Green Socialism, Chichester, has had a car-free centre since the 1960s and it's been fine. Ditto many ,many other towns and cities in the UK.

Try it, and if it is a colossal failure (especially without P 'n' R) then we can think again.

Think again?

We can probably anticipate a fairly large implementation cost.

We have to go balls deep, or not at all

 

[Grombleton]

You banning everything with wheels? Even 2 wheels?

You can probably expect a response

Time for me and my unicycle to SHINE

 

[Easy 10]

The front of the station is an embarrassment to Brighton and Sussex.

Coming down from that there London town, with all it's noise, pollution, traffic and chaos.
You walk through the concourse and blammo

You're somewhere even worse.


The front of the station should be comparatively silent.
It should sell the city.
It should smell of sea air.
It should look attractive, engaging and fun.
The first thing you notice should be the sea.

Instead it:-

Pedestrian crossing beeping.
Engines running.
Cramped
Dangerous
Dirty.

Indeed, its such a wasted opportunity.

Imagine stepping off a train, walking outside the station and seeing an unbroken vibrant pedestrianised boulevard thronging with shops, bars, restaurants, market stalls, stretching aaaall the way down past the clock tower to the beach. Maybe even have a tram running up and down. It would attract tourists and locals in their DROVES all year round, but especially in the summer. It would be the focal point of the entire city, regenerating a tired shabby old area and providing jobs.

I'm sure there'd be councillors and town planners queuing up to say why its "impossible" though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Indeed, its such a wasted opportunity.

Imagine stepping off a train, walking outside the station and seeing an unbroken vibrant pedestrianised boulevard thronging with shops, bars, restaurants, market stalls, stretching aaaall the way down past the clock tower to the beach. Maybe even have a tram running up and down. It would attract tourists and locals in their DROVES all year round, but especially in the summer. It would be the focal point of the entire city, regenerating a tired shabby old area and providing jobs.

I'm sure there'd be councillors and town planners queuing up to say why its "impossible" though.

Sounds wonderful, I’m in.

 

[blue-shifted]

Time for me and my unicycle to SHINE

The other form of transport which doesn't get talked about, but it should because they are taking off in other cities around the world is electric scooters. Every time I see one I get the most overwhelming sense of envy. A few legal issues at the moment. Hard to imagine there will be in 5 to 10 years even with the government we've got

 

[MattBackHome]

Indeed, its such a wasted opportunity.

Imagine stepping off a train, walking outside the station and seeing an unbroken vibrant pedestrianised boulevard thronging with shops, bars, restaurants, market stalls, stretching aaaall the way down past the clock tower to the beach. Maybe even have a tram running up and down. It would attract tourists and locals in their DROVES all year round, but especially in the summer. It would be the focal point of the entire city, regenerating a tired shabby old area and providing jobs.

I'm sure there'd be councillors and town planners queuing up to say why its "impossible" though.

Or GOONS saying that it's hypocritical to want this if you've ever eaten a steak.

 

[Brovion]

You banning everything with wheels? Even 2 wheels?

You can probably expect a response

Yeah, I'm a pedestrian! Bottom of the food chain!
But yeah, I can probably compromise, cyclists can have the seafront. (Slightly biased as the only accident I've ever had is when a cyclist knocked me down whilst I was walking on the pavement on Tottenham Court Road). And there will be no point in banning cars and still allowing diesel-powered buses, and worse taxis, to drive up and down between say the station and the seafront

Think again?

We can probably anticipate a fairly large implementation cost.

We have to go balls deep, or not at all

There will be a large cost. But if it IS a failure initially it will have to be re-thought and re-designed. But the process need to start.

 

[Machiavelli]

Well yes but I think we can look at recent history and conclude that what is sensible and has widespread agreement on a chat site won't always play well at a ballot box.

Us saying it makes sense is one thing, finding the politicians willing to stake their careers and campaign on the detail of it is another. Greens got voted out of a majority pretty quickly. There's (incredibly as it sounds) huge hostility to anything seen as environmental

There's hostility, to be sure, whether it's huge is another question, but the more important question is why do you think that there is this hostility?

 

[beorhthelm]

Or GOONS saying that it's hypocritical to want this if you've ever eaten a steak.

only because some other goons are telling us we must give up meat to save the planet.

 

[Grombleton]

The other form of transport which doesn't get talked about, but it should because they are taking off in other cities around the world is electric scooters. Every time I see one I get the most overwhelming sense of envy. A few legal issues at the moment. Hard to imagine there will be in 5 to 10 years even with the government we've got

I can't say with any real authority given i'm not a resident, but I don't see too many people utilise the bikes that are stationed around the city. If the opportunity arises i'll always hop on one.

 

[Albumen]

https://twitter.com/amyheley/status/1216721857434525697?s=21

Why do people vote for nutters like this?

Hopefully the council will reject it.

Labour and Greens are co-working at the council like never before due to similar manifestos. It can only be good for the city.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Not to my knowledge, its just a thought I've long held but I doubt if I'm the only person its occurred to.

The Labour Bassam regime wanted to create Ocean Boulevard, a tree lined pedestrianised walkway from the station to the sea, 20 years ago.

I think it got stuck in the queue behind dealing with Keep Hove in the 1890's and all that nonsense opposition to King Alfred. Bassam went to the Lords and Labour lost control of the council and it went no further.

 

[blue-shifted]

I've long felt that a pedestrianised boulevard running from Brighton station all the way down Queens Road and West Street to the seafront would be a thing of wonder. Regenerate the whole shabby area (especially West St), encourage market stalls etc. It could be like our very own mini Las Ramblas.

Pie in the sky though I suppose.

As posted by myself on 1st May 2019 ......

I completely agree with your point about the initial Brighton experience.

I don’t think the whole town centre should be pedestrianised, but key routes should be.

The most important of these should be Queens Road down to the Clock Tower and then from West Street to the seafront. Just imagine, how much nicer the lives of locals as well as the visitor experience is would be if you could get the train to Brighton, then have a traffic free amble down to the seafront. You could get a really continental café culture, which would hopefully significantly change the nature of West St.

There should still be East to West Traffic along Western Road and down North Street and maybe somewhere up closer to the station as well. The main two problems I could see, (apart from the financial and political ones) would be bus access to the Station, which would require new routes via 7 dials and to the back of the station and access to the Churchill Square Car Park, which would now have to funnelled through that road where the Metropole is . I’m sure there are plenty of other problems, I can’t think of any insurmountable ones though.

 

[Easy 10]

As posted by myself on 1st May 2019 ......

I completely agree with your point about the initial Brighton experience.

I don’t think the whole town centre should be pedestrianised, but key routes should be.

The most important of these should be Queens Road down to the Clock Tower and then from West Street to the seafront. Just imagine, how much nicer the lives of locals as well as the visitor experience is would be if you could get the train to Brighton, then have a traffic free amble down to the seafront. You could get a really continental café culture, which would hopefully significantly change the nature of West St.

There should still be East to West Traffic along Western Road and down North Street and maybe somewhere up closer to the station as well. The main two problems I could see, (apart from the financial and political ones) would be bus access to the Station, which would require new routes via 7 dials and to the back of the station and access to the Churchill Square Car Park, which would now have to funnelled through that road where the Metropole is . I’m sure there are plenty of other problems, I can’t think of any insurmountable ones though.

See. I knew I wasn't the only one.

Never gonna happen though. NIMBYs and BANANAs would kick off about some aspect or other they don't like. Taxi drivers and the bus companies would have a grizzle. Someone won't think of the children.

Nothing ever gets done in this city, it'll still be rotting away come the end of the century.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Recently moved from Bristol where there is the first serious move to ban diesel vehicles: https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/05/bristol-becomes-first-uk-city-ban-diesel-cars-11047794/. Very likely to be approved by government with only 14 months to go as the city has missed CAZ targets.

Unintended consequences will abound; e.g. I chair the Science Centre slap in middle of CAZ; we present demonstrations and curriculum relevant lessons to 60k school children pa, virtually all arriving by coach. Similar problem for Bristol Zoo, SS Great Britain, and Bristol Museum and quayside, a popular visitor location. Wont do a lot for Bristol's equivalent to Churchill Square either.

Watch this space; idyllic thoughts are fine, but practicalities look ominously tricky.

 

[blue-shifted]

There's hostility, to be sure, whether it's huge is another question, but the more important question is why do you think that there is this hostility?

I have to admit I don't know. I generally believe in progressive ideas and vote for people or ideas who can demonstrate progressive values. Frustratingly I'm in a minority at a national level, and a only in a reasonable (and not overwhelming) majority at local level.

Something like this needs large support to go through. On a broad brush level there really aren't any valid objections other than those the ones made up because people are a bit dim or selfish. However once the detail gets put in it will become very easy for politicians proposing it to become mired by attacks from interest groups and nimbys, and proposals to be watered down to the level of pointlessness

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

See. I knew I wasn't the only one.

Never gonna happen though. NIMBYs and BANANAs would kick off about some aspect or other they don't like. Taxi drivers and the bus companies would have a grizzle. Someone won't think of the children.

Nothing ever gets done in this city, it'll still be rotting away come the end of the century.

Epitome of Little England this town. Do absolutely nothing til it rots beyond repair or falls into the sea. Victorians would be ashamed at the neglect of their legacy.

 

[Chicken Run]

If you need the difference between a bus and a taxi explained to you, this thread probably isn't for you.

Come on tell me why you won’t let taxis into your planned bus only lanes?

 

[The red pepper kid]

Come on tell me why you won’t let taxis into your planned bus only lanes?

ban buses as well - very dangerous - driven too quickly

 

[Stat Brother]

Come on tell me why you won’t let taxis into your planned bus only lanes?

Because it's a bus lane.


Anyway I'm just the ideas man.

We need to rip the plaster off and not piss around like a bunch of pathetic grizzling old tosspots.

This country needs go-getters like me, not held back by the but but but brigade.