[Politics] God(s)

[JBizzle]

I wouldn't say that I don't believe in God, or that I do either. I hope that there is "something else", but I don't like the prescribed nature of a lot of organized religions.

In many ways, I wish I did have faith because it does provide a level of comfort and hope to those people, but I can't suspend disbelief long enough.

On an individual level, one's religion should be a very personal thing and if they have faith, then I'm pleased for them. Where I have an issue is when religions start to define government policy. Weirdly, I saw a really interesting interview with Frank Zappa yesterday from about 1982 when he was talking about the increasing use of religion to drive the US into a fascist future (starting with Reagan).

 

[WATFORD zero]

No.

And sadly, it's not religion that causes war, unfortunately it's people seeking power and wealth using various excuses including religion.

Now be good, or Karma's gonna get you

 

[Stato]

I've recently been made more aware that the way we all experience the world varies incredibly widely. Hearing and then reading about aphantasia and how it wasn't really discovered until the late 19th century and then not particularly researched until the 21st century made me think about how little we question whether our own perceptions are experienced by others in the same way. I never understood that, where I was 'seeing' things in my mind in the abstract, without any visual imagery, others were having a totally different experience, some even being able to re-run and watch full movies in their heads.

There was an article in the Guardian last week that discussed inner monologues and this made me realise that some people actually 'hear' thoughts, some in their own voices, some in other voices. Once again this was completely foreign to me. Although I understand the concept, I have not experienced it and have little perception of how differently even those closest to me are experiencing their inner world, let alone reacting with the material world.

When you add life experience to this you can go down the Dawkins route and argue that religion is passed on from parents to children and that there are heavy societal and familial pressures to follow the religion of your peers, or you could appreciate the more fundamental truth that we will all prioritise our perceptions, lives and relationships over what may be provably true.

In other words, God(s) exist for some of us and not for others. In answering the question, perception will always outrank empirical truth. We'll never reach a consensus, so arguing our corner is less important than accepting this and finding common ground that helps us live together. This has to include ensuring that freedom of religion is enshrined in all societies and that total separation of church and state is sacrosanct.

As a non believer, I lean towards Hitchens view (He uses the word 'toys'. Apologies to those who do not like this choice of word.):

"I'm perfectly happy for people to have these toys, and to play with them at home, and hug them to themselves and so on, and to share them with other people who come around and play with the toys. So that's absolutely fine. They are not to make me play with these toys. I will not play with the toys. Don't bring the toys to my house, don't say my children must play with these toys."

 

[beorhthelm]

Well, yes our beliefs should indeed be based on true things. Or rather, I used to think that. Today, I can't be bothered to spend time arguing with people who have entrenched beliefs. For starters, it wouldn't sit right with me, as nobody can prove that God doesn't exist. Religion is only, ever, a belief, in the same way as I don't believe God exists. That is also a belief.

Who am I to say that all religious people are wrong? Because I can't prove it either way, there is a possibility that I may be wrong.

which religion though? they cant all be right, so the proliferation of them proves some, if not all, must be wrong.

 

[GT49er]

Not read the whole thread but has anyone done the dyslexic atheist thing yet?

Dog off.

 

[happypig]

Didn't Ricky Gervais say something similar? There is no test to prove if there is a God but there is for Science, Science and Religion are not compatible.

Yes, I think he did, that's probably where I heard it.

 

[The Mole]

It is easy to say”it’s all nonsense “ but when I think of both sides , I still believe in God. I understood if you don’t but please allow me to follow my faith in peace. Nb God and organised religion are not the same thing.

I don’t believe in God, but I do respect those that have a religion. As long as believers in deities show me the same respect then we can all be happy.

 

[Han Solo]

No option for agnostics so no vote from me.

 

[BevBHA]

Do you believe in spiderman and his super powers? It’s basically the same question. And anyone who answered yes would sound equally ridiculous

 

[Wrong-Direction]

This is a great watch

 

[Eric the meek]

which religion though? they cant all be right, so the proliferation of them proves some, if not all, must be wrong.

Yes, fair point. There was a stage in my life when I would have agreed with you absolutely. Today, I realise that I don't know the details of all the world's religions, so I am more cautious.

The longer I have been on this world, the more convinced I am of the value of not being too sure about anything.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No option for agnostics so no vote from me.

You won't get to Valhalla with that kind of attitude

 

[Taybha]

Of course there's a god,he played for Brighton and Hove Albion and his name is Peter Ward.

 

[Swimboy64]

Of course there's a god,he played for Brighton and Hove Albion and his name is Peter Ward.

Mine eyes have seen the glory

 

[Quebec Seagull]

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't f*** around. Doesn't f*** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with. For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog. Joe Pesci straightened that c***-sucker out with one visit. I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answer at about the same 50 percent rate. Half the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as god 50/50. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well. Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50/50. So just pick your superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself.

- George Carlin

I've listened to Carlin's shows so often that I knew you were quoting him halfway through the first sentence, lol!

.

 

[Quebec Seagull]

which religion though? they cant all be right, so the proliferation of them proves some, if not all, must be wrong.

... Which is where the Baháʼí come in!

Although an atheist since my early teens, I've never met a Baháʼí who wasn't the gentlest, kindest person I've ever met, making it the 'faith' of my choice in another time-line. The ultimate 'woke' (I.e. inclusive, progressive) belief system.

.

 

[W3 BHA]

I believe each of the many religions, throughout the existence of human life, were created as a means to instill fear or the promise of paradise (jam tomorrow) in order to control people and thereby achieve great power.

 

[Triggaaar]

Do you believe?

In any of them or your own?

Perhaps you are one?

I'm the 1st one up in my house & watching tv with the dog. It's Sunday & there's loads of god related content about. So I'm thinking - who is this for?

I might have some faith - I always say I don't- but I don't have any faith in the way it is written about or taught as religions to the world (they give me less faith / put me off the whole idea)

I do like your inclusion of 'Yes - but not as others have written it in formal religoustexts'.

My guess is that there's no god, but just as no one can say where a god came from, or what was there before, we can't answer where the universe came from either.

What I am quite confident about, is that if there is a god, it's not one of the ones we hear are preached about.

 

[Zeberdi]

No option for agnostics so no vote from me.

Good point.

Rather impressive really that so many people claim absolutely to believe God does exist or absolutely know he/she doesn’t.

It’s living with the uncertainty and embracing paradox that is the real challenge.

 

[drew]

No.

And sadly, it's not religion that causes war, unfortunately it's people seeking power and wealth using various excuses including religion.

Now be good, or Karma's gonna get you

I disagree. I see religion as a man made and is a method of control over others, ie dictating how they are supposed act on their beliefs. Most religions survive due to indoctrination from a young age. Therefore people were going to war due to differences between religions. One religion wanting to control another.