[Brighton] Glyphosate weed killer could return to Brighton

[beorhthelm]

There is a new movement in British agriculture, promoted by DEFRA, with the attractive name Regenerative Farming. It claims to be environmentally sound but is 100% dependent on the regular use of glyphosate on every single field regardless of the crop grown (not inc grassland). Naturally this is also being strongly backed by the all powerful multinationals that produce the chemical. Glyphosate is banned in many countries around the world due to carcogenic concerns.
As consumers the plan is to convince us that this is a new eco way forward for food production. The alternate view is there is an increased risk to human health and a massive backward step for the environment (glyphosate kills everything so habitats are destroyed).
I have connections to the industry and you can see where my view sits. But following on for the relatively minor use on Brighton’s streets, I would be really interested in your views on what is, for better or for worse, going to be a use of glyphosate On an enormous scale. Thanks.

seems to be the vanishingly small and unproven risk is from glyphosate being on food crops. it makes no sense then to ban or prohibit use in urban areas. the main arguments against it use in urban weed control are based on its success. i.e. it leads to less weeds and bugs (living on the weeds) in the urban environment, which greens happy to have more of, while most people dont really want.

as i recall the Brighton ban was on using any weedkillers. looks like attempting to make a different argument, glyphoste causes cancer, to drive the agenda in favour of banning weed killers rather than accepting its part of council's job to maintain our towns.

 

[Weststander]

seems to be the vanishingly small and unproven risk is from glyphosate being on food crops. it makes no sense then to ban or prohibit use in urban areas. the main arguments against it use in urban weed control are based on its success. i.e. it leads to less weeds and bugs (living on the weeds) in the urban environment, which greens happy to have more of, while most people dont really want.

Then bugs feed birds etc, so a more prolific ecosystem. Verges and similar, there’s no trip-hazard rationale for using Glyphosate.

 

[Hamilton]

Given they only have 7 councillors left I’m not quite sure why you’re asking that. They’re not in charge any more.

And haven’t been for a long time. I used to constantly correct people from outside of Brighton who asked “how that Green council was doing.”

Between 2003 and 2023 no party had overall control. Now Labour have control of a council on the brink of bankruptcy, with a Labour Council Leader who has one eye on Brighton and one on climbing the greasy political pole.

 

[wellquickwoody]

People don’t have the time, but manage to find 3 hours per day on their mobile’s.

I agree, but that is what many people will say. Probably the same folk who complain about litter but never pick half a dozen bits up when out walking.

 

[abc]

seems to be the vanishingly small and unproven risk is from glyphosate being on food crops. it makes no sense then to ban or prohibit use in urban areas. the main arguments against it use in urban weed control are based on its success. i.e. it leads to less weeds and bugs (living on the weeds) in the urban environment, which greens happy to have more of, while most people dont really want.

as i recall the Brighton ban was on using any weedkillers. looks like attempting to make a different argument, glyphoste causes cancer, to drive the agenda in favour of banning weed killers rather than accepting its part of council's job to maintain our towns.

The risk is indeed ‘unproven’ but the links are considered very concerning across the globe. It is in the interest of multi national business to downplay the risk via financing their own supposedly ‘independent’ research. The problem is that we won’t know the reality until many years henceforth - think asbestosis, BSE, tholidomae etc. so the question is whether it’s really worth the risk when it’s use is undoubtedly not necessary as there are alternatives.

Re the ‘bugs’… the bugs are a vital part of the food chain and support birdlife etc. I doubt very much most people have a problem with bugs and if we destroy their habitats we will have little life left apart from very sad humans

 

[Weststander]

I agree, but that is what many people will say. Probably the same folk who complain about litter but never pick half a dozen bits up when out walking.

Matt Baker [I know he can be annoying] said a good thing during the Pandemic … when out walking instead of being angry about litter, pick it up and bin it. I think millions of others started to doing the same thing. In aggregate people can make a difference.

I was already doing it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Then bugs feed birds etc, so a more prolific ecosystem. Verges and similar, there’s no trip-hazard rationale for using Glyphosate.

there's no real reason to treat verges and pavements the same. mow the former, weed the latter. if the weeding is more efficent with some weedkiller, use it. dont use it on the verges and areas of undergrowth. not weeding the pavements and roads lead to their deterioration, trip hazards, general unkept state and increase longer term maintenance. the trouble comes from green ideals overruling simple compromises. weed killers are very targeted, localised, not like we're dusting towns by plane.

 

[BLOCK F]

Also important that people know not to go around sniffing the cracks in the pavement.

I hope so, but this is Brighton we are talking about, so there may well be quite a few ‘crack sniffers’ about the place.

 

[Hamilton]

Matt Baker [I know he can be annoying] said a good thing in the Pandemic … when out walking instead of being angry about litter, pick it up and bin it. I think millions of others started to doing the same thing. In aggregate people can make a difference.

I was already doing it.

100% this.

I’ve also read studies that suggest that doing so calmly, without making a big hoo-ha about it, has far more impact on others who observe you doing it. It becomes a social norming phenomena, and influences behaviour.

Remonstrating, complaining, or even ranting that those who do drop litter can in fact entrench their behaviour.

 

[abc]

there's no real reason to treat verges and pavements the same. mow the former, weed the latter. if the weeding is more efficent with some weedkiller, use it. dont use it on the verges and areas of undergrowth. not weeding the pavements and roads lead to their deterioration, trip hazards, general unkept state and increase longer term maintenance. the trouble comes from green ideals overruling simple compromises. weed killers are very targeted, localised, not like we're dusting towns by plane.

I think this is fair comment. I suspect the amount of glyphosate that Brighton would use in a year where truly necessary (eg on pavements) would be less than one ‘regenerative’ farm would use in a season.

 

[Brovion]

Here we have a microcosm of the problems of modern Britain. No one, barring the most fundamentalist of fundamentalist Greens, wants to see the town looking like one of those post-apocalyptic zombie films with weed-choked streets and pavements. However nobody in their right minds wants to see the streets and pavements covered in chemicals - no matter how 'safe' they say they are.

A great solution would be citizens working together, under the auspices of the council, to clear the streets without resorting to pesticides. Do some good for the town whilst building community spirit, what's not to like? Apparently there is such a group (I didn't know that) - but apparently it's completely bogged down with bureaucracy and Red Tape. And I bet if someone 'went rogue' and organised their own group they would run foul of all sorts of bylaws and H&S directives. Stopping their activities would be more important to the council than keeping the streets clear. I could be wrong, maybe someone could organise such a group and we'll find out? (And no I'm not volunteering!)

 

[ClemFandango]

I reckon this thread is going to be polluted by arseholes.

And your solution to the problem is?…

 

[The Clamp]

If everyone tended to the weeds outside their homes and workplaces, a half hour job once a month for a few months of the year, we wouldn’t need to spray this shit around.

As ever though, the green option involves a little bit of effort, selflessness, and responsibility. Key factors behind many people decrying it as “Green Party madness” so they don’t have to bother.

 

[abc]

Here we have a microcosm of the problems of modern Britain. No one, barring the most fundamentalist of fundamentalist Greens, wants to see the town looking like one of those post-apocalyptic zombie films with weed-choked streets and pavements. However nobody in their right minds wants to see the streets and pavements covered in chemicals - no matter how 'safe' they say they are.

A great solution would be citizens working together, under the auspices of the council, to clear the streets without resorting to pesticides. Do some good for the town whilst building community spirit, what's not to like? Apparently there is such a group (I didn't know that) - but apparently it's completely bogged down with bureaucracy and Red Tape. And I bet if someone 'went rogue' and organised their own group they would run foul of all sorts of bylaws and H&S directives. Stopping their activities would be more important to the council than keeping the streets clear. I could be wrong, maybe someone could organise such a group and we'll find out? (And no I'm not volunteering!)

In Rwanda (Sorry Clamp) they have a voluntary community day every last Saturday in the month. 90% of people participate and they pick up litter, weed the verges and help the elderly and infirm. Rwanda is the cleanest country I’ve ever come across. It is also very poor with 85% of the population living off the land. They work far longer hours than any of us in the west but find the time anyway.

 

[The Clamp]

In Rwanda (Sorry Clamp) they have a voluntary community day every last Saturday in the month. 90% of people participate and they pick up litter, weed the verges and help the elderly and infirm. Rwanda is the cleanest country I’ve ever come across. It is also very poor with 85% of the population living off the land. They work far longer hours than any of us in the west but find the time anyway.

Mr. Kagame?

 

[Chicken Run]

100% this.

I’ve also read studies that suggest that doing so calmly, without making a big hoo-ha about it, has far more impact on others who observe you doing it. It becomes a social norming phenomena, and influences behaviour.

Remonstrating, complaining, or even ranting that those who do drop litter can in fact entrench their behaviour.

I like that post and will get on board

 

[herecomesaregular]

A great solution would be citizens working together, under the auspices of the council, to clear the streets without resorting to pesticides. Do some good for the town whilst building community spirit, what's not to like? Apparently there is such a group (I didn't know that) - but apparently it's completely bogged down with bureaucracy and Red Tape. And I bet if someone 'went rogue' and organised their own group they would run foul of all sorts of bylaws and H&S directives. Stopping their activities would be more important to the council than keeping the streets clear. I could be wrong, maybe someone could organise such a group and we'll find out? (And no I'm not volunteering!)

Source? The Tidy Up Group has many members, the problem in my experience is that when things are organised..... few of them...... turn up.

 

[timbha]

Source? The Tidy Up Group has many members, the problem in my experience is that when things are organised..... few of them...... turn up.

It’s a shame that few turn up to help but I suspect that’s because it’s not always local and often it’s a public park or gardens. Doing something in your own neighbourhood is much more convenient and visible.

 

[Brovion]

Source? The Tidy Up Group has many members, the problem in my experience is that when things are organised..... few of them...... turn up.

Post #32 in this thread.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Post #32 in this thread.

and see post #53. You've made quite a jump there imho! I'm in the group, attended a two hour training session (which will be a h&s/risk assessment/insurance requirement of the modern world) and, if I want to I can complete an online form when I do an independent tidy up (however, I prefer to join the group ones, of which the one's I've attended have never been in a park or public gardens btw. I'm not convinced timbha knows what they are talking about...).