Give this head Teacher a 'medal'.

[Guinness Boy]

You may be right, in which case (as an employer) I'd be really interested to know which law you're referring to, and how that prevents an employer taking account of dress, piercings or whatever. As I understand it, the equality legislation (rightly) protects people from being discriminated against (in recruitment and other aspects of employment) on the basis of characteristics that they can't choose or alter (sex, age, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, disability...). As I understand it, an employer can legally discriminate against someone who has chosen to cover their face in tattoos or metalwork, or who shows up for a job interview in "non-standard" clothing. I'm not saying they should, just that I think they can within the law. And I'm not an employment lawyer, so I'd be genuinely interested to know if this is the case

Sorry, you more misunderstood the understated part of my post. In general when I see people of Asian origin for a job they are smarter than their British counterparts but not always. Appearance is part of our assessment as far as being able to meet clients go but I cannot use my generalisation above in my thinking because it factors in their ethnicity.

 

[drew]

If people are happy for their kids to be wandering the streets when they are meant to be in school and want to argue the point then I'm flabbergasted to say the least. This woman was lucky all the kids that were meant to be in her care returned unharmed. My daughters school has a very strict policy but they would never adopt this irresponsible behaviour.

I tend to agree with the hard line taken by the head teacher however I don't think it would warrant sending children home with the possibility that their parents will be sent a text. You could be sending home children as young as 11 who may not normally have to make their own way home. Surely the answer would have been that, following the 3 month lead in time, instead of sending kids home, keep them at school and then give them a temporary suspension for the next two days. Letter/text home to that effect and the parents would have to make arrangements for those two days which might then drive the message home. Then just keep increasing the suspension until compliance!

 

[El Presidente]

I think someone needs a WEDGIE on this thread.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

There's a happy halfway to be met.

I totally get your point about a bright kid able to express themselves, and I feel in many cases it's an under-valued aspect of character, but by the same token there's nothing wrong with wanting to present yourself smartly.

I agree with that.

I also believe (from personal experience) that there's a significant link between discipline, school uniform and results at a school.

My son went to a state Secondary school, rated as 'good' by Ofsted when he first went there. The policy on uniform was however a bit of a mess - fleeces rather than blazers, no ties, any type of shoes etc. were permitted.

The new head arrived, and immediately changed the policy (albeit phasing it out over time for existing pupils) and reintroduced blazers and ties etc.

I'm not saying that was the only reason the school is now rated as 'outstanding', with superb results (not that results are the be all and end all of education of course) as the new head made other discipline related changes too, but I do believe that if children go to school dressed 'smartly' this can have a positive effect on their attitude, and actually enhance their learning experience, even though they or some parents might not particularly agree with said policy.

 

[Dr Q]

Good on her.

 

[glasfryn]

its called knocking the individuality out of children ..........yep why not make them robots

 

[nwgull]

its called knocking the individuality out of children ..........yep why not make them robots

No it's not. It's called discipline and conformity. There's a time and a place for dressing in an individual way and being a bit whacky and non-conformist: University. Then when that's over, you need to go back to conforming a bit if you want anyone to take you seriously career wise.

 

[happypig]

I bet this isnt your only foray into school over something you might have been better served to support.

I am all for having a sense of self expression, but if you think it is wearing a sweatshirt rather than a blazer, its hardly rock 'n' roll my friend.

To qualify your position why would you wish to insult a pupil that might choose to wear a shirt and tie, by calling him a thick lummox ??

It is likely your didnt make a lot of friends that night, not because of your view on blazers, more like you're just tiresome.

You're deliberately misreading what I put. I was opposed to blazers because they simply aren't as practical as sweatshirts; it's f..k all to do with rock and roll.
The school held a ballot of parents, teachers and kids on whether they wanted to move to blazers; the majority (by quite a margin) wanted to retain sweatshirts but the head and chair of governors decided to go against that and change the policy.
I have no problems with people wearing a shirt and tie, it's entirely a matter of choice, but the implication is that a well turned out child is more likely to be intelligent is what I was challenging; if you think that makes me tiresome then so be it, I couldn't give a shiny shite.

 

[glasfryn]

No it's not. It's called discipline and conformity. There's a time and a place for dressing in an individual way and being a bit whacky and non-conformist: University. Then when that's over, you need to go back to conforming a bit if you want anyone to take you seriously career wise.

so you think that the way you dress gauges your intelligence and your ability to pass exams ....hmmmmm!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

its called knocking the individuality out of children ..........yep why not make them robots

Rubbish. Even the strictest school uniform policy will be bent as far as humanly possible by the kids. It happened to all of us.

They all find ways to express their "individuality" quite easily (even if they all unwittingly end up looking the same anyway).

 

[JOLovegrove]

Having only scanned the thread, there is one point I have seen raised; the fact that yes, school uniforms make everyone the same, but surely that is both a positive and a negative. I think the big positive is that it allows everyone to be up judged equally and not because of who has the designer clothes. I myself will happily admit I am no fashion guru, and was even less so back while at school, so he fact I knew what I had to wear every day and didn't have to think about looking like shit while other people really cared. Also, for parents with a significantly lower income, their children would not be judged because they haven't got the newest trainers or clothes.

 

[Simster]

so you think that the way you dress gauges your intelligence and your ability to pass exams ....hmmmmm!

Where has he said that? Where has anybody said that?

A conformist dress code simply minimises the display of haves and have-nots in the class room, and enforces discipline - and that is a good thing.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

School uniforms - a tool of crap teachers to try gain control rather than respect. Hideous invention. I'd be for all state-funded schools banning the damn things as there's so many rackets going on with supply of branded items etc.

Indeed. It's morally wrong that state schools force the purchase of branded uniform. It's profiteering. Strange how a school sweatshirt costs £20 yet an identical one but without branding costs £4 in the supermarkets. My partner complained to my step daughters school about it - the response from the Deputy Head ? 'We think the students look smarter and £20 isn't expensive so everyone can afford them.' I'll remember that arrogant remark next time he and his ilk complain about changes to their salaries and pensions.

 

[glasfryn]

Indeed. It's morally wrong that state schools force the purchase of branded uniform. It's profiteering. Strange how a school sweatshirt costs £20 yet an identical one but without branding costs £4 in the supermarkets. My partner complained to my step daughters school about it - the response from the Deputy Head ? 'We think the students look smarter and £20 isn't expensive so everyone can afford them.' I'll remember that arrogant remark next time he and his ilk complain about changes to their salaries and pensions.

very sensible post

 

[BigGully]

its called knocking the individuality out of children ..........yep why not make them robots

Utter rubbish, its a window into the discipline of the school, which for me seems quite reasonable.

Do you think the kids and their parents that couldnt be arsed to wear in the correct sequence the school uniform asked of them by their HEAD teacher, are the same pupils handing in their homework on time, revising appropriately for exams or expressing their individualism in their Drama or Art classes ?

Once you have got the required elements to progress to meaningful employment and life skills then you can be as individual as you want, fill your boots.

Your life choices are greatly diminished if you cannot begin to grasp how the functioning employment/life environment works, be individual for sur but stop being a berk.

 

[Hastings gull]

Indeed. It's morally wrong that state schools force the purchase of branded uniform. It's profiteering. Strange how a school sweatshirt costs £20 yet an identical one but without branding costs £4 in the supermarkets. My partner complained to my step daughters school about it - the response from the Deputy Head ? 'We think the students look smarter and £20 isn't expensive so everyone can afford them.' I'll remember that arrogant remark next time he and his ilk complain about changes to their salaries and pensions.

I fully agree with you in that the Deputy Head could have been far more tactful. My wife is a school secretary charged with selling uniform. Yes, without the logo the garment could well be bought more cheaply, though she defends the system by saying that it is a way of the school being able to boost school funds and thus pay for the extras that would not normally come out of County Council budgets. The children benefit in the long run. Whether selling something for £20, when it could be bought for £4, to use your example, is reasonable, is of course open for debate.
PS I was brought up in Westdene, doing my paper round there in the 6os!

 

[User removed 4]

Where has he said that? Where has anybody said that?

A conformist dress code simply minimises the display of haves and have-nots in the class room, and enforces discipline - and that is a good thing.

Spot on.

 

[Simster]

very sensible post

Why didn't YOU say it then? You said it was about knocking the individuality out of children. Your argument is all over the place.

 

[surlyseagull]

Oh come on, do you think it is likely that a school head with such an arbitrary dress code for the pupils doesnt also have strict codes for her staff.

For me parents should just trust the teachers, do as requested and let the children learn a life lesson, when in middle age come on a forum and discuss its merits but sometimes you need to learn to bite the bullet and do what your senior feels might improve your life-chances.

Its no more than a reflection on that schools priorities, some order and discipline, you can rip it apart as much as you want but it seems a reasonable aspiration to me.

By the way all BHA players from under 9's upwards have a uniform that must be adhered to just as all professional clubs.

Eh ....I really dont understand the relevance between my post and yours or am I missing something .As far as I can see you have all but agreed with me ....Oh and my understanding is ,a head teacher can request teachers dress as the head would like but they cannot force it .

 

[hart's shirt]

It's morally wrong that state schools force the purchase of branded uniform. It's profiteering. Strange how a school sweatshirt costs £20 yet an identical one but without branding costs £4 in the supermarkets.

At least we can all relax here, safe in the knowledge that our football club would never resort to such behaviour.