[News] Girls not girls & boys not boys! Gender neutrality !

[Moshe Gariani]

I sometimes get the impression that this sort of thing is usually passed off as something the modern world has caused. That we've all become too bleedin' soft. And to an extent I agree but not in those terms. The modern world has become more inclusive and understanding and so transgender people feel comfortable enough to live their life the way they want to.

These sorts of identity crises have probably been happening throughout human history it's just now we've, by and large, reached a point where we're more receptive to it. Some of us anyway.

Good post. I am no expert but this analysis is roughly what I believe.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

and goes to World Book Day events at school dressed as Batman or Spiderman.

As an aside I once saw a kid at an airport dressed as a spaceman complete with helmet. I have lived a longish life and I cannot think of many things better than this. That's one way to liven up air travel.

 

[pearl]

Woo-hoo! A load of cis, straight, white guys sharing their thoughts on something they know absolutely **** all about.

It's what this forum does best.

perhaps we should actually ask/listen to how children/teenagers feel, it's their world after all

 

[Chicken Run]

God I miss the 80’s

 

[The Large One]

I think you’re wrong in focussing on his use of the word “Boy” and “Girl”. As we’re all aware, language evolves over time and words morph into a different meaning. It evens happens now - i was always taught the the word “can” is to be able to and is different from “may”. However, the accepted use of can now is more like may.

So, ignoring the morphed words, his implied message is that your generals determine your sex. Not what your mind is telling you.

I do wonder where this whole thing ends? Can I say I’m a different age and race because I want to? Why not, surely I should have the right to?

I know for the people who have confusion over their gender it will be tough, but lets help them and not impact others. I never forced my kids into anything and my son has ended up loving sport etc and my daughter is more arty/creative, but thats been their choice. I would have supported whatever they’d wanted, but would never have been upset if they’d been called boy/girl at school.

Just my opinion.

The point I'm making is he is using hyperbole based upon a factual error to underline his case. He might passionately argue his point - good for him, but in this case it highlights (and attempts to make up for) the lack of strength in his central argument.

A good argument has its basis in true fact. From there, discussion can be had - even when opposing sides both have their arguments based in true fact. Added to the notion he believes 'sex' and 'gender' are one and the same, his arguments look flimsier as they go on.

 

[BadFish]

perhaps we should actually ask/listen to how children/teenagers feel, it's their world after all

Nah, really we should hark back to our own childhoods and assume that anything different to our nostalgia and time biased recollections is part of the fracturing of society or the left wing conspiracy designed to turn us into snowflakes.

Its much easier than trying to understand something.

 

[The Large One]

No business of mine what gender someone identifies as. No business of theirs what gender I identify as.

I sometimes get the impression that this sort of thing is usually passed off as something the modern world has caused. That we've all become too bleedin' soft. And to an extent I agree but not in those terms. The modern world has become more inclusive and understanding and so transgender people feel comfortable enough to live their life the way they want to.

These sorts of identity crises have probably been happening throughout human history it's just now we've, by and large, reached a point where we're more receptive to it. Some of us anyway.

And those who haven't are the ones creating the bigger problem.

 

[BadFish]

God I miss the 80’s

Back when men were men and women were women

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...iLwKHUE5ByUQ_AUICigB&biw=1070&bih=542&dpr=1.1

 

[spring hall convert]

perhaps we should actually ask/listen to how children/teenagers feel, it's their world after all

Or make an effort to talk to trans people about their experiences and see if there is anything we can learn individually and collectively.

Far easier to just stay scared though, I guess.

 

[The Large One]

God I miss the 80’s

Really? Tricky to miss the 1980s when you're still there.

 

[Triggaaar]

In our company, there is a lady who wants to be called by the male equivalent of their name, because thats what they've requested how they want to be treated.
Doesn't really make any difference to me.

It's probably easier for us to deal with that sort of choice of an adult, because we know they've gone through puberty and as an adult reached this decision with knowledge and a lot of thought. I think it's harder for us to understand if it's a child, as I wouldn't be confident a child knows their own body or understands their place in society as well.

 

[Dave the OAP]

And where did I say they couldn't? I said they should and can be trained - do you not agree?

Absolutely, sorry I misread your post.

There is a move to do more training, but we all know budgets are tight and it is all about perceived priorities

 

[Triggaaar]

I would support them 100% in whatever they want to do. I can absolutely guarantee though, that I wouldn’t complain to my kids school (6 weeks after the incident) that the teacher said ‘well done girls’ to a group of girls which included my daughter who now ‘identifies as a boy’. That is plain nuts in anyone’s book Shirley?!

Is that definitely what happened, not a bit of artistic license?

 

[pearl]

Really? Tricky to miss the 1980s when you're still there.

 

[spring hall convert]

It's probably easier for us to deal with that sort of choice of an adult, because we know they've gone through puberty and as an adult reached this decision with knowledge and a lot of thought. I think it's harder for us to understand if it's a child, as I wouldn't be confident a child knows their own body or understands their place in society as well.

It's hard isn't it? These things are. What I will say is that the trans people I know well have known since very early childhood and have tried to live straight, then gay before finally addressing it. Despite the widespread discrimination (because as this thread and recent press demonstrate it is still socially acceptable to be transphobic in way it isn't to be homophobic or racist) they all report being immeasurably happier living as the opposite gender pre or post op.

Now that is just a handful of people's experiences and obviously there are a range of different stories out there. What's a phase and what isn't etc? There's a lot of questions but we're not going to get to the bottom of them if we have some trans Clause 28 as a significant minority of this thread would appear to approve of.

I suppose the reason I personally feel so strongly on this one was it was a prejudice that I had to work though and the only real way you do that is by interacting with people, just putting up the shutters helps no one.

 

[amexer]

This is all rather over the top. Thank fully life has changed. I dont know anybody that wouldnt show acceptance to anybody whatever colour,gender sexuality. What on earth do I buy children at Christmas. Sounds like its best to stick to vouchers so my nephew can buy a dolls house

 

[Wilko]

This is a really interesting article I think, for those saying that men are wet and feminised, here is just some of the damage to society for teaching men to be aggresive, alpha dominant types- https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...y-men-cant-ditch-the-baggage-of-being-a-bloke

'Suicide is a predominantly male tragedy (a man takes his life every minute somewhere in the world). Ditto gambling, drug overdoses, rough sleeping or just disappearing. Rape, murder, terrorism, war, people trafficking and domestic violence: all are predominantly masculine disgraces. Wherever you go in the world, men always make up more than 90% of jail populations. Flick through today’s newspaper and the chances are it will be full of all the bad things that men are doing. Of course, recent weeks have been dominated by sexual harassment, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Mass shootings and sickening murders, not to mention terror attacks and the brutality of war'

 

[pearl]

It's probably easier for us to deal with that sort of choice of an adult, because we know they've gone through puberty and as an adult reached this decision with knowledge and a lot of thought. I think it's harder for us to understand if it's a child, as I wouldn't be confident a child knows their own body or understands their place in society as well.

I would be confident they know it more than I do

 

[Triggaaar]

I would be confident they know it more than I do

Not sure where what you know comes into it. Kids don't know what it means to be a man or woman, so while they might identify more as a boy or girl, I'm concerned that they can't really understand the implications of swapping from one to the other at such a young age.

 

[WildWood]

Is that definitely what happened, not a bit of artistic license?

Here’s the article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...s-wrong-gender-joshua-sutcliffe-a8054146.html