[News] Girls not girls & boys not boys! Gender neutrality !

[BadFish]

Its great that we can all express ourselves and behave the way we choose. It sounds like you had a wonderful childhood. My concern isn’t for a child who is a tomboy. Just that some parents may over-react. And make more of it than how parents would have treated children in the past. Or if a child is at school and genuinely gets confused when they are really just tomboy and nothing more. If they had a friend who was trans, it may make a child over think being a tomboy, when years ago, they wouldn’t of thought more of it.

Hopefully everyone will be sensible. Maybe it will help raise a debate of gender at a much younger age. I have heard it reported that some children grow up, sure they are trans and later regret having had treatment. A minority, i’m sure but it does show how difficult it is for all concerned. It is clear that the subject requires a great deal of sensitivity.

I have a friend who had a daughter who is now her son. It is certainly difficult for everyone. Family and friends who only want the best for the child. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be. I can try and that seems hard enough. The grief parents go through is difficult too, at a time they are for the most part trying to do the right thing for their child.

I definitely don’t think anyone does it on a whim. Just there is potential for confusion. Not every child has supportive parents and some children are born in bigoted families.

I have great sympathy for anyone faced with transgender related issues. It is no skin off my nose either. Live and let live. I was only concerned that a child may be encouraged towards another gender when they are just a tomboy.

I like to think that more understanding around a subject causes less confusion not more. While your hypothetical question is a possibility, i think it would be incredibly rare in a more enlightened society.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think this is the crux of the discussion, you suggest that it is almost a negative to me a manly man or girly girl on the slip side it is also a negative to be an un manly man or an non girly girl. I think that if we discuss and analyse this stuff we might come to the understanding that people can just be what they are without the judgement of what society says they should be.

That is the ideal. Unfortunately, that type of thinking will put someone’s nose out somewhere and society will deal with the inevitable backlash.

 

[BadFish]

That is the ideal. Unfortunately, that type of thinking will put someone’s nose out somewhere and society will deal with the inevitable backlash.

Very true, this is inevitable I think, thankfully though it won't stop people trying to understand the issue better.

 

[btnbelle]

I like to think that more understanding around a subject causes less confusion not more. While your hypothetical question is a possibility, i think it would be incredibly rare in a more enlightened society.

I certainly hope so. Most parents would do their level best to be sensitive to their child and manage their feelings. We don't live in a world where everyone is understanding though. It may create a new problem in rare cases. It is great society is moving in the right direction.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Post #23

This changes everything...it's the Mail on Line...it must be so true it hurts.

Total,bollocks.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Old bloke doesn't understand young people. Shock, horror!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can't say I really give a shit to be honest. It's just kids experimenting with stuff.

 

[goldstone]

I agree, totally pathetic.
Boys are boys, girls are girls, end of discussion.

100% agreed. If you have a willy then you're a boy. If you don't then you're a girl. Pretty simple. Certainly didn't cause any problems when I were a kid!

 

[BadFish]

Found this on WebMD - Explains it pretty well from what I can see (I am no expert)

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/transgender-what-it-means#3

 

[BadFish]

100% agreed. If you have a willy then you're a boy. If you don't then you're a girl. Pretty simple. Certainly didn't cause any problems when I were a kid!

Lucky you!

 

[hart's shirt]

This changes everything...it's the Mail on Line...it must be so true it hurts.

Total,bollocks.

Respectfully, it was in fact true.

The Mail Online was just one of several media sources across the political spectrum that reported on the story.

Others include the Mirror, Times, Independent, Metro, BBC, Pink News...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maths-teacher-suspended-after-saying-11511826
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teacher-suspended-for-calling-transgender-boy-a-girl-qjrjtvc0l
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/teacher-transgender-student-girl-accident-call-trans-wrong-gender-joshua-sutcliffe-a8054146.html
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/12/teacher-suspended-after-calling-a-trans-boy-a-girl-7073286/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41966554
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/11/12/teacher-suspended-for-calling-trans-boy-girl/

 

[Fungus]

100% agreed. If you have a willy then you're a boy. If you don't then you're a girl. Pretty simple. Certainly didn't cause any problems when I were a kid!

You know we all start as female in the womb, and roughly half become male? Sometimes it doesn't quite work, and the baby is both or neither.

And that's before you start thinking about gender / the mind.

Not as simple as some would have us believe.

Edit: apologies if already covered.

 

[BadFish]

Respectfully, it was in fact true.

The Mail Online was just one of several media sources across the political spectrum that reported on the story.

Others include the Mirror, Times, Independent, Metro, BBC, Pink News...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maths-teacher-suspended-after-saying-11511826
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teacher-suspended-for-calling-transgender-boy-a-girl-qjrjtvc0l
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/teacher-transgender-student-girl-accident-call-trans-wrong-gender-joshua-sutcliffe-a8054146.html
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/12/teacher-suspended-after-calling-a-trans-boy-a-girl-7073286/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41966554
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/11/12/teacher-suspended-for-calling-trans-boy-girl/

I suspect there is more to this story that meets the eye.

However if taken at face value it is clearly a huge clumsy overreaction to the issue at hand and should probably be dismissed as an extreme and unhelpful reactions to the problem rather than held up as some kind of norm or perceived useful strategy for addressing the problem. If it is wholly accurate then one would hope that both the parent and the school board and leadership will realise that their reaction is both over the top and unhelpful and we can learn from the disappointing response.

If there is not more to the story than meets the eye.

 

[Drumstick]

Girls not girls & boys not boys! Gender neutrality !

You don’t just go to your GP and announce you want to have the op and it’s done next week. It’s often two years of psychiatric assessments and living as that sex before dates are penned in.

Clear research from all cultures and backgrounds show that often the longer you live this secret life the more psychological harm done.

Before things were done behind closed doors, now it’s just more open.

No one is trying or would even let a tom boy transition, it’s a huge commitment on both sides and not undertaken lightly, people are simply asking for more acceptance.

Two points I’ll ask you to think about,

Don’t we all have gender neutral toilets in our homes? Why is it now an issue in public places?

Secondly I see it as being gay, it’s not a choice it’s just who you are, and that in time it’ll be accepted as such. I’m sure much of the same stuff was said when being gay was scary and `new’.

Recently spent a long time with a Trans Middlesbrough fan who was lovely, but felt so unwelcome on her own football forum and would never dare go to the Riverside now. How is that right or fair? This is a real fan who has loved them since childhood. So if there’s anyone here who is in a similar predicament you can always PM me for a chat.

Edit: Just to add that’s why I think the rainbow is a perfect representation of the LGBTQ world, it’s a spectrum and people sit in different places on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BadFish]

You don’t just go to your GP and announce you want to have the op and it’s done next week. It’s often two years of psychiatric assessments and living as that sex before dates are penned in.

Clear research from all cultures and backgrounds show that often the longer you live this secret life the more psychological harm done.

Before things were done behind closed doors, now it’s just more open.

No one is trying or would even let a tom boy transition, it’s a huge commitment on both sides and not undertaken lightly, people are simply asking for more acceptance.

Two points I’ll ask you to think about,

Don’t we all have gender neutral toilets in our homes? Why is it now an issue in public places?

Secondly I see it as being gay, it’s not a choice it’s just who you are, and that in time it’ll be accepted as such. I’m sure much of the same stuff was said when being gay was scary and `new’.

Recently spent a long time with a Trans Middlesbrough fan who was lovely, but felt so unwelcome on her own football forum and would never dare go to the Riverside now. How is that right or fair? This is a real fan who has loved them since childhood. So if there’s anyone here who is in a similar predicament you can always PM me for a chat.

Edit: Just to add that’s why I think the rainbow is a perfect representation of the LGBTQ world, it’s a spectrum and people sit in different places on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It amazes me that people are so concerned with how other people identify and feel. Surely we should just accept that this is a problem for others (even if we have no frame of reference to help us understand) and support them as they need it.

To me it is ironic that it seems to be those who constantly bang on about political correctness etc trying to make us all think and act the same way that are so intolerant of anyone that feels or identifies as different.

 

[The Fifth Column]

I understand it and accept it is an issue but the amount of media coverage and focus on transgender issues is totally disproportionate, that and the fact it actually confuses children even more. Kids should be allowed to be kids and do stuff boys and girls do, the ones with transgender issues ought to be accommodated but this media hysteria over all things LGBT needs to pipe down. People in general are far more tolerant and aware of diversity than the media give us credit for.

 

[BadFish]

I understand it and accept it is an issue but the amount of media coverage and focus on transgender issues is totally disproportionate, that and the fact it actually confuses children even more. Kids should be allowed to be kids and do stuff boys and girls do, the ones with transgender issues ought to be accommodated but this media hysteria over all things LGBT needs to pipe down. People in general are far more tolerant and aware of diversity than the media give us credit for.

The media give us the stories we desire, most of it is crap and irrelevant. To me the media's output is a sad indictment of our society. People like to read about ridiculous things IHMO, although LGBT issues would be way down my list of banal rubbish peddled by the media.

Are there many documented cases of the confusion caused by LGBT issues? I have read this being mentioned a few times on this thread but am unsure if this is just an assumption or a real issue. I would be interested to know how this plays out and consider the reasons for this. confusion.

 

[GT49er]

100% agreed. If you have a willy then you're a boy. If you don't then you're a girl. Pretty simple. Certainly didn't cause any problems when I were a kid!

I don't necessarily go along with quite such a hard line view, but yes, by and large it is true that if you have a willy you're a boy. The rare cases where the norms of gender being defined as whether you have a willy or not do not apply do need to be identified, and treated kindly, effectively and sympathetically - but this should be reactive rather than pro-active; teachers and other professionals can and should be trained to look out for it - but telling lots of 'normal' (but by now quite confused) little boys in junior school that just because they've got willies they might not be proper boys isn't, IMHO, the answer.

 

[hart's shirt]

I suspect there is more to this story that meets the eye.

However if taken at face value it is clearly a huge clumsy overreaction to the issue at hand and should probably be dismissed as an extreme and unhelpful reactions to the problem rather than held up as some kind of norm or perceived useful strategy for addressing the problem. If it is wholly accurate then one would hope that both the parent and the school board and leadership will realise that their reaction is both over the top and unhelpful and we can learn from the disappointing response.

If there is not more to the story than meets the eye.

It's been a whole 10 days since the story broke across different media outlets.

In an age of instant messaging and prepared statements, that's ample time for the story to be questioned, contradicted or refuted by those named.

Nothing so far.

Consequently, I think one has to accept the story for what it is, regardless of whether one feels the suspension is justified or otherwise.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is the psychiatry equivalent of the advent of Health and Safety. It is a new opportunity to make money by offering compliance training services for employers in gender non-opression and full potential realization. Given that where I work we are run by brain dead sheep who **** up our daily lives by squeezing us into boxes they can then tick as 'job done' I am thinking seriously about offering myself up as 'gender opressed'. There may be lots of time off and money in this. So, as a heterosexual trapped in a man's body against shim's will, what shall I call myslf? 'A ****' springs to mind....

Manwhile, poor ****ers with real problems, gay pople bullied at work for example, are now ignored as not gender interesting enough and 'already covered' by existing frameworks. FFS.