**German Grand Prix - Official Thread**

[Buffalo Seagull]

When McLaren had Lewis and Heikki I can understand they'd always favour Lewis as Heikki was no competition, but Ferrari have got two drivers that at the start of the season everyone was saying would give each other a good fight.

So you're saying there should be one rule for one team and a different rule for another?
I'm not saying I agree with what Ferrari did last night (you're right to say that Massa is not that far behind Alonso and things can change quickly in F1), but I think they should be allowed to if they so wish - because otherwise you could be left with a situation at the end of a season where a team is expected to sit and watch a driver lose a world championship beacuse they get beaten in the last race by their teammate.

 

[strings]

Johnathan Ledgard was on BBC Breakfast this morning and spoke a lot of sense. Basically he said that the $100,000 fine was less than a tap on the wrist, however team orders have always been in F1, although never as blatent. He said that the FIA should either remove the rule, or enforce the rule.

I, personally, would enforce the rule by allowing Ferrari to keep the constructors' points, but by deducting the drivers' points (and not re-attributing the deducted points). But, that will never happen.

People pay a lot of money to go to Grand Prix (£310 for decent tickets in Woodcote at Silverstone) and even people that don't go to races contribute financially by keeping the TV ratings high and, in some cases, by purchasing merchandise. With that in mind, I think something should be done - the fans deserve more than this.

 

[k2bluesky]

Santander, Spanish sponsor, Spanish driver Massa hasn't a chance ever in a situation like that, he may be allowed to win a lesser race but not a European one with all the Spanish/Santander flag waving publicity Alonso's win will generate, he who pays the piper etc......

 

[Pavilionaire]

I heard David Croft on BBC 5 Live phone-in this morning ask the question: "Is F1 a team sport, or an individual sport?" He then said the teams regard it as a team sport, hence Ferrari's "team orders".

However if F1 was simply a team sport F1 would have had nothing to gain by 'switching' their drivers. They did so in order to give their No.1 driver a better chance of winning the Driver's Championship.

Indeed, you could argue the Driver's Championship is more important to Ferrari, since by effecting the switch they were risking an adverse reaction from Massa and the possible loss of 2nd place, which almost happened.

Either way, something has to be done, and I don't mean a 'slap on the wrist' fine. Rules are rules, and the integrity of the sport is at stake.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I pretty much turned off as soon as Massa had let Alonso through, I mean what is the point.

Seems to me that F1 is completely half-arsed about it, and can't make up its mind of it is a team sport or an indivicual one. Either come out and admit it is a team sport, and allow team tactics - and drop the drivers championshipa to just have the constructors, or only allow teams to run one car - maybe two during qualy - then the best one in the race. Of course, they could never do that due to finances.

This situation makes a mockery of a "sport" and puts it nearer to wrestling.

 

[Gritt23]

The fans reaction would be ugly to the point of rioting if they tried to do that in the Brazilian Grand Prix.

I actually think it's the insulting of my intelligence that annoys me the most, as they try to gloss over it saying it was a "driver decision." Hmmm, only in so much as he did physically leave his foot off the gas coming out of the corner, and not because it was his idea.

After seeing some brilliant battles within teams this season - Turkey was SUPERB - what a shame that Ferrari have found their way back to the front, and look what happens the moment they get there.

Leaves a very bad taste, the sort of bad taste we haven't had while the 4 cars at the front were Red Bull and McLaren fighting it out.

 

[Gritt23]

However, Ferrari haven't necessarily got off as lightly as the story may sound, because I believe the $100k fine was teh maximum the Stewards could dish out for the offense on the day. The incident now gets referred to the World Motorsport Council (or similar) who decide whether the result should stand, and indeed, whether any further sanctions against Ferrari need to be made.

I don't think Alonso comes out of this very well. He really does come across as a petulant child who throws his toys out of the pram when everyone doesn't lay down for him. He's been whinging for weeks now, even about other drivers penalties, because he thought they should have been harsher. Then the spoilt kid "this is ridiculous" on Sunday when Massa didn't just get out of his way as soon as he got anywhere near him.

What does Alonso demand from the team, and to what extent does he demand his team mate destroys their own race for his benefit? What next? Will Alonso demand the other guy drives into a wall to bring out a safety car at a beneficial moment?

 

[Easy 10]

Maybe Massa should have been told to do a Piquet and CRASH instead ?

F1.

Joke.

 

[pasty]

Then the spoilt kid "this is ridiculous" on Sunday when Massa didn't just get out of his way as soon as he got anywhere near him.

That for me was the worst part of it. "Mummy, the nasty man won't get out of my way and let me win"

Alonso, if you ain't good enough to get into the lead on your own, then you don't deserve to win the race

 

[Tricky Dicky]

That for me was the worst part of it. "Mummy, the nasty man won't get out of my way and let me win"

Alonso, if you ain't good enough to get into the lead on your own, then you don't deserve to win the race

Abso-bloody-lutely, and it looked like Massa was doing well enough to hold on, given an even hand.

 

[Gritt23]

Abso-bloody-lutely, and it looked like Massa was doing well enough to hold on, given an even hand.

He certainly did, especially as Alonso was getting rattled, and dropped back a bit after the "this is ridiculous" comment. He rapidly dropped to 3.5 secs adrift after that comment, before picking back up. Presumably he was told (albeit coded) "look, catch him back up with some quicker lap times, and you'll get through." Maybe, that's even why he did drop back, to post 3 or 4 faster laps.

In short though, Alonso was never getting past any other way.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So their F1 team is like their football team then.

Hardly surprising is it?

 

[Easy 10]

I dunno how drivers can take any satisfaction from winning like this. It cheapens the whole event, and any success a driver achieves off the back of his team mate handing him points would irrevocably stain his own personal achievement. Its winning, but with a caveat.

Whats the difference between this happening in F1, and the FAPL instructing a team to throw a match against Man U so that they have a better chance of winning the title ?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I dunno how drivers can take any satisfaction from winning like this. It cheapens the whole event, and any success a driver achieves off the back of his team mate handing him points would irrevocably stain his own personal achievement. Its winning, but with a caveat.

Whats the difference between this happening in F1, and the FAPL instructing a team to throw a match against Man U so that they have a better chance of winning the title ?

I don't suppose Alonso cares, if he becomes champion again. Massa would probably care more, but as he was reasonably unlikely to win over the course of the season, now Ferrari owe him big time.

 

[Gritt23]

Massa would probably care more.

Just a bit. Especially as it was exactly a year to the day that he'd had the accident in qualifying that nearly killed him.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Just a bit. Especially as it was exactly a year to the day that he'd had the accident in qualifying that nearly killed him.

Maybe that's his excuse for letting Alonso overtake - flashbacks !!

 

[Gritt23]

Maybe that's his excuse for letting Alonso overtake - flashbacks !!

That would have been a pretty poor excuse, as it didn't happen in Hockenheim. It was the Hungarian GP (Saturday Qualifying) last year, just happened to be exactly a year ago.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

That would have been a pretty poor excuse, as it didn't happen in Hockenheim. It was the Hungarian GP (Saturday Qualifying) last year, just happened to be exactly a year ago.

It was about as good as the excuse they gave !!

 

[Gritt23]

It was about as good as the excuse they gave !!

True, absolutely true. It was better in fact.

I quite liked Massa's explanation of the passing move though.


Q: Fernando managed to get past you. Did you make a mistake? Was it under braking?

Massa: He passed me.