General Election 2017

[nigeyb]

I don't think austerity was a mistake, we can't keep spending more than we take in indefinitely. What was a mistake, well...it wasn't a mistake rather than an ideological point of principle was where the cuts were made. When someone like Ian Duncan-Smith says that benefits are being cut too far then you know you're in trouble. I think if anyone has even a basic understanding of the effect of, say,a £15 a week cut to someone trying to manage on £100 a week then it would never have happened. I don't think Osborne made the decision maliciously but he was supremely ignorant. Definitely say sorry for that and rectify it and ensure it never happens again.

Also an admission that "we're all in it together" was never true. For individuals and for income tax there's an argument that the burden was spread fairly. Over the last few years, the tax the UK collected from the highest earners has increased as a percentage of overall tax quite noticeably. Not so true for corporation tax and although corporation tax receipts have increased, I don't think anyone can argue that there were any austerity measures that were placed upon them nor pressure brought to bear on those companies whose tax avoidance went so far as to take the p*ss.

AND of course meanwhile the top 0.1% super-rich get ever more obscenely richer and richer. Including those tax dodging press barons who run the Mail and the Sun. The share of wealth owned by the top 0.1% is almost the same as the bottom 90%.

 

[Don Quixote]

Oh to be a fly on the wall when Theresa May appeared in front of the 1922 Committee.

A triumphant PM leading her party into a third consecutive election success, and it sounds like she got quite the reception.

 

[vegster]

Are they going to admit austerity was a huge mistake, and apologise for the misery and grief that they have caused to ordinary people, the disabled,and the poor.



No, I thought not, im not holding my breath.

One of the key points for me in this election was in one of the few times May went in front of a studio audience to drum up support, she was asked by a nurse something like " How can you say that you are putting more money in to the NHS and I can see that standards of care are falling due to dwindling resources and that I now earn that same as I did in 2009 " ?..... Mrs May ... " Look, we have had to make some difficult decisions...." No sympathy, no empathy, no light at the end of the tunnel.

How government can impose such limited pay increases across the public sector for so long and expect support is beyond parody.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

And up until the election she still said that there is no magic money tree, so she was going to carry on for another 5 years until the result came through.
We had to make difficult decisions means squeeze the poor, disabled and children until the pips squeak.
The magic money tree is the billions in uncollected tax and the super rich but she was never going to get the money from them.
Under austerity child poverty has risen and she was going to carry on.
The Tories now running around backing her are making me want to throw up.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The magic money tree does exist. There's trillons of pounds tied up in offshore accounts across the world. Shake em down.

 

[theonlymikey]

One of the key points for me in this election was in one of the few times May went in front of a studio audience to drum up support, she was asked by a nurse something like " How can you say that you are putting more money in to the NHS and I can see that standards of care are falling due to dwindling resources and that I now earn that same as I did in 2009 " ?..... Mrs May ... " Look, we have had to make some difficult decisions...." No sympathy, no empathy, no light at the end of the tunnel.

How government can impose such limited pay increases across the public sector for so long and expect support is beyond parody.

When at the same time MPs havs voted through two salary increases for themselves. Increasing their salary by £7k to £74,000.

It's a disgrace.

Link

 

[Ernest]

Inflation up to 2.9% , wages stagnating at pre 2009 levels and the only people the Tories are offering financial assistance to are their MP's who lost their seats last week

 

[nicko31]

Inflation up to 2.9% , wages stagnating at pre 2009 levels and the only people the Tories are offering financial assistance to are their MP's who lost their seats last week

The Tories have apologised to their MP's and will offer them a parachute payment, the poor that are getting screwed again by Brexit and their crap policies

 

[Simster]

She has no credibility. None. She has to go. I slagged off Corbyn for cosying up to terrorists and lo and behold, Theresa May goes one better and considers inviting homophobic terrorist supporters into her government. Disgraceful. They should never have even been an option. Minority government working alongside other parties and trying to reach a broad consensus should be the way forward not getting into bed with religious zealots.

If May goes and with her Gove, Boris and Hunt AND the Tories stay well away from the DUP then I think we may have accidentally got a good result all round. It will be consensus politics that will have to pull towards the centre ground and definitely no more disability benefit cuts nastiness.

Totally agree. Ultimately, ALL parties need to stay away from Northern Irish parties all the while London and Dublin are still mediating over the relaunch of Stormont.

Cosying up with a popularist unionist party on a national level is more shameful, blatant opportunism and represents a massive risk to the Northern Ireland peace process. Disgusting.

 

[Machiavelli]

Real term wages have been falling in the UK since 2003, in the US, it's since the 1980s. There's little to no chance of 'Theresa May and the Conservatives (and the Unionists)' doing anything about this, and the latest inflation figures especially when combined with the direction of travel for growth suggest that this trend is due to exacerbate over the next few years. If you factor in what financial shenanigans have gone on through tax havens, off-shoring, you can see that what's been going on has been fine for the few, disastrous for the many. And that's before we bring other factors, such as property or labour, into the equation.
The electorate are increasingly waking up to what's been going on over the past few decades. The neoliberal hegemony is deteriorating, the big question remains what, if anything, will emerge to take its place.

 

[Machiavelli]

Totally agree. Ultimately, ALL parties need to stay away from Northern Irish parties all the while London and Dublin are still mediating over the relaunch of Stormont.

Cosying up with a popularist unionist party on a national level is more shameful, blatant opportunism and represents a massive risk to the Northern Ireland peace process. Disgusting.

Well, I disagree about the centre ground, which has been parroted about for decades. If there's one thing Corbyn has quite clearly demonstrated is that there are successful alternatives to constantly going for the centre ground, and that attracting the previously disaffected, uninterested and/or marginalised is a decent strategy.

There are moments when, politically, Blairite third way triangulation (which is just another variant of [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]'s One Nation Toryism) works. We are not in such a moment -- see my previous post (10185). Thatcher recognised that the post-war consensus was breaking up and carved a new distinctive narrative. Corbyn has prepared the first stages of an alternative one, although I suspect it will need to be adapted before it grips more widely.

 

[nigeyb]

And well done Simon McCoy for saying what everyone is thinking when these Tory muppets trot out pre-prepared answers. It's just bollocks. Be yourself. The world of spin is over...

BBC Presenter Laughs In Tory MP Alan Mak’s Face For Repeating ‘Strong And Stable’ Slogan

Watch it here..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...and-stable-slogan_uk_593e9f76e4b02402687b25ae

 

[glasfryn]

Inflation up to 2.9% , wages stagnating at pre 2009 levels and the only people the Tories are offering financial assistance to are their MP's who lost their seats last week

and the DUP

 

[beorhthelm]

...Corbyn has prepared the first stages of an alternative one, although I suspect it will need to be adapted before it grips more widely.

adapted how? to make it more appetising to centre ground perhaps?

the thing is its all very well saying Corbyn has ended neoliberalism etc, march forth with spending from the money print, but if the rest of the world disagrees and they do actually want to see countries manage deficits and debt, we'd be rather fubar'd a few years down the line.

 

[Machiavelli]

adapted how? to make it more appetising to centre ground perhaps?

Well, I'm sure you won't agree, but I still think there's something Old labour (note lower-case 'l') about the latest manifesto and Corbyn-McDonnell (although not certain people that are around them, such as Paul Mason), and that they haven't gone far enough in recognising the transformations that happened in the category of labour that have been occurring for a century now. This is one of the areas they need to develop in order to provide a substantial alternative to neoliberalism, which rests on the notion of the rational-calculating individual, in my view.

Just one example as a partial illustration of my point: there's been far too much talk from lefties about zero hour contracts, when more attention should be focused upon the self-employed, as they outnumber the former by 4 or 5 to 1.

 

[nigeyb]

People seem to get very confused by debt and GDP, me included, however this article will illuminate and assist...

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

Now, according to the front page of the Daily Telegraph "austerity is over" we will see it rise quite fast but that is not necessarily a reason for alarm. It would go up anyway at the Brexit bill (and associated costs) are going to be massive.

Government debt as a % of GDP has been much higher in the past. Notably in the aftermath of the two world wars. This suggests that current UK debt is manageable compared to the early 1950s. (note, even with a national debt of 200% of GDP in the 1950s, UK avoided default and even managed to set up the welfare state and NHS

One big factor is what's happening in the economy - with ours slowing down + more borrowing for Brexit + more public spending it will be a tricky time but hard to see any credible alternative as we're hellbent on leaving the EU

 

[Stato]

Well, I disagree about the centre ground, which has been parroted about for decades. If there's one thing Corbyn has quite clearly demonstrated is that there are successful alternatives to constantly going for the centre ground, and that attracting the previously disaffected, uninterested and/or marginalised is a decent strategy.

There are moments when, politically, Blairite third way triangulation (which is just another variant of [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]'s One Nation Toryism) works. We are not in such a moment -- see my previous post (10185). Thatcher recognised that the post-war consensus was breaking up and carved a new distinctive narrative. Corbyn has prepared the first stages of an alternative one, although I suspect it will need to be adapted before it grips more widely.

Whilst agreeing with you about the direction that the country should go in politically, we currently have to accept the underlying message from Buzzer's post which is that over 40% of the country are in complete disagreement. In a democracy, the parties have to make the best of the hand dealt to them in order to serve the interests of the country. Otherwise we risk becoming like America where the left and right has roughly equal support, but is so polarised that one side will shore up the presidency of someone who, if not a traitor, certainly seems to be an idiot, rather than have to find a compromise with the other side.

Unfortunately, Buzzer's hope that the largest party will try to move towards a consensus approach seems unlikely to occur given that the lesson that they seem to have taken from the election results is that the whole country thinks that all of their ministers, including Jeremy Hunt, are doing a great job, would love a bit more Christian fundamentalism and haven't half missed that nice Michael Gove.

 

[Bozza]

Great news - a strong and stable government is all but formed, and they can get on with the business of running this country:

Westminster sources tell the BBC that "a deal is as likely as not tomorrow as today" and within 36 hours, there will be a government commanding an absolute majority in the Commons and enjoying confidence and supply.

The BBC understands the deal has largely been agreed and that they are taking time to ensure the fine details.

 

[Bozza]

(And you can still back May to be next PM at 1.07 - approximately 1/14 - on Betfair. Buying money, shirley?)

 

[Jim in the West]

The "No magic money tree" statement was one of the many ridiculous attempts at a sound bite from May during the election campaign. She well knows that there IS a magic money tree...it's called Quantitative Easing, and the Bank of England has printed over £400bn over the past 7 years or so. A lot of that has been a necessary response to the GFC, but the side-effect is to push up asset prices and bring down interest rates. So the wealthy (with assets) get richer, whilst pensioners trying to live on the interest from their savings get poorer.