Gaza / Israel

[Soulman]

Jewish Virtual Library...nice unbiased source you've got there.

Ok then.
This is Mosab Hassan Yousuf, son of Hamas leader of West Bank Sheik Hassan.
See what he has to say eh. I daresay you have heard of the Muslim Brotherhood, re their involvement in other warring Middle East countries, where Britain/USA are not involved.
Arabs for Israel - X-Muslims for Israel - Hamas leaders son - YouTube

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Quote "They are doing a pretty good job of this so far. And lets not make any bones about it they do want to wipe them off the map...... that is their entire intention."

As i said, they could of wiped them off the map years ago, but they have not...... meanwhile Israel has been pummeled by rockets (some 1200) for years.
Seems to me that things seem fairly quiet until Hamas start launching rockets into Israel. Last Saturday for instance.... then the retaliation begins.
Getting rid of the Islamic terror regime that was installed by Hamas and sponsored by the Mullah regime in Tehran is the only path to liberation for the people in Gaza.

1200 or so rockets that have killed less than 20 civilians. Meanwhile Israel strikes using state of the art fast jets and one of the best armed armies in the world killing THOUSANDS of civilians. Hardly a proportionate response. If we'd used the same tactics in Ireland we'd have wiped Dublin off the face of the planet.

Let's not forget Israel illegally assassinated a Palestinian opponent outside it's own boarders and purposely tried to make it look like Britain did it by issuing it's agents with fake British passports. With friends like that it's rather hard to shed a tear for any Israeli. While they refuse to retreat to UN designated borders, carry on building illegal settlements and continue to use banned weapons I will hold not one ounce of sympathy for Israel and fully support the Palestinian fight using any methods they deem necessary.

 

[somerset]

1200 or so rockets that have killed less than 20 civilians. Meanwhile Israel strikes using state of the art fast jets and one of the best armed armies in the world killing THOUSANDS of civilians. Hardly a proportionate response. If we'd used the same tactics in Ireland we'd have wiped Dublin off the face of the planet.

Let's not forget Israel illegally assassinated a Palestinian opponent outside it's own boarders and purposely tried to make it look like Britain did it by issuing it's agents with fake British passports. With friends like that it's rather hard to shed a tear for any Israeli. While they refuse to retreat to UN designated borders, carry on building illegal settlements and continue to use banned weapons I will hold not one ounce of sympathy for Israel and fully support the Palestinian fight using any methods they deem necessary.

Ho bloody ho.... 20 casualties purely because of incompetence, not because they are surgical strikes.

...and THOUSANDS?..... are you really reading the news reports, or just filling the gaps with your own ignorance?

 

[Soulman]

1200 or so rockets that have killed less than 20 civilians. Meanwhile Israel strikes using state of the art fast jets and one of the best armed armies in the world killing THOUSANDS of civilians. Hardly a proportionate response. If we'd used the same tactics in Ireland we'd have wiped Dublin off the face of the planet.

Let's not forget Israel illegally assassinated a Palestinian opponent outside it's own boarders and purposely tried to make it look like Britain did it by issuing it's agents with fake British passports. With friends like that it's rather hard to shed a tear for any Israeli. While they refuse to retreat to UN designated borders, carry on building illegal settlements and continue to use banned weapons I will hold not one ounce of sympathy for Israel and fully support the Palestinian fight using any methods they deem necessary.

Hardly 20 eh.
At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

 

[BadFish]

Ho bloody ho.... 20 casualties purely because of incompetence, not because they are surgical strikes.

...and THOUSANDS?..... are you really reading the news reports, or just filling the gaps with your own ignorance?

At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

INteresting stats here on deaths since the year 2000. Made more interesting when you consider that 75% of the Israeli population is Jewish and only 20% is Arab

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

One of the main problems with this conflict is that the Media (western Especially) purposefully muddy the waters and confuse the issue of what is going on in order to make Israel look good. The endless UN resolutions ignored by the state are rarely mentioned and the reporting is biased to say the least. I have not seen the assisnation mentioned above reported in any western Media.
[MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] I would be interested if you have a link to this.

 

[somerset]

Hardly 20 eh.
At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

OK, so history it is then..

Last weekend only for the Israelis.... but we have to count twelve years of casualties on the other side....... nicely balanced.... try looking with more than one eye.

Westdene said 20 Israeli casualties, and meanwhile thousands of Palestinians.... not very balanced.

 

[Soulman]

At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

INteresting stats here on deaths since the year 2000. Made more interesting when you consider that 75% of the Israeli population is Jewish and only 20% is Arab

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

One of the main problems with this conflict is that the Media (western Especially) purposefully muddy the waters and confuse the issue of what is going on in order to make Israel look good. The endless UN resolutions ignored by the state are rarely mentioned and the reporting is biased to say the least. I have not seen the assisnation mentioned above reported in any western Media.
[MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] I would be interested if you have a link to this.

Assessments of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict often come down to a simple comparison: How many have been killed on each side. No one disputes that, by this simple calculation, Palestinian deaths outnumber those endured by the Israelis – by a lot. That approach, however, invokes a widely used mathematical idiom: statistics lie.

According to a study by the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, between 2000 and early 2003, nearly 2,000 Palestinians had been killed compared to 750 Israelis. But a closer, more robust look at the numbers uncovers the flaws of that effortless assessment. Indeed, it is clear that these disproportionate death tolls are due to the fact that there are many more Palestinian combatant deaths than Israeli combatant deaths. Palestinians’ rejection of Israelis’ far superior heath care, along with the Palestinians’ use of human-shields, has widely distorted these numbers in favor of the Palestinians.
The most significant problem with a simple death toll is that it includes deaths of combatants (i.e. terrorists, suicide bombers, etc.). If you remove combatants from the equation and only look at noncombatants (innocent civilians), the tables immediately turn in favor of the Israelis.
According to the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, 80% of the Israeli death toll is comprised of innocent civilians. On the Palestinian side, only 45% of those killed are non-combatants. Moreover, 40% of Israelis killed are females, compared with just 5% for Palestinian deaths. The numbers clearly indicate that the Palestinians actually target Israeli noncombatants and females, while Israel focuses solely on those that pose a threat, while at times inadvertently killing innocent civilians.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Hardly 20 eh.
At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

You're missing the key word - CIVILIANS - most of the 1097 Israelis have been soldiers.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

INteresting stats here on deaths since the year 2000. Made more interesting when you consider that 75% of the Israeli population is Jewish and only 20% is Arab

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

One of the main problems with this conflict is that the Media (western Especially) purposefully muddy the waters and confuse the issue of what is going on in order to make Israel look good. The endless UN resolutions ignored by the state are rarely mentioned and the reporting is biased to say the least. I have not seen the assisnation mentioned above reported in any western Media.
@Westdene Seagull I would be interested if you have a link to this.

New Mossad chief to apologise for use of UK passports in Dubai killing - Telegraph

 

[BadFish]

Assessments of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict often come down to a simple comparison: How many have been killed on each side. No one disputes that, by this simple calculation, Palestinian deaths outnumber those endured by the Israelis – by a lot. That approach, however, invokes a widely used mathematical idiom: statistics lie.

According to a study by the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, between 2000 and early 2003, nearly 2,000 Palestinians had been killed compared to 750 Israelis. But a closer, more robust look at the numbers uncovers the flaws of that effortless assessment. Indeed, it is clear that these disproportionate death tolls are due to the fact that there are many more Palestinian combatant deaths than Israeli combatant deaths. Palestinians’ rejection of Israelis’ far superior heath care, along with the Palestinians’ use of human-shields, has widely distorted these numbers in favor of the Palestinians.
The most significant problem with a simple death toll is that it includes deaths of combatants (i.e. terrorists, suicide bombers, etc.). If you remove combatants from the equation and only look at noncombatants (innocent civilians), the tables immediately turn in favor of the Israelis.
According to the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, 80% of the Israeli death toll is comprised of innocent civilians. On the Palestinian side, only 45% of those killed are non-combatants. Moreover, 40% of Israelis killed are females, compared with just 5% for Palestinian deaths. The numbers clearly indicate that the Palestinians actually target Israeli noncombatants and females, while Israel focuses solely on those that pose a threat, while at times inadvertently killing innocent civilians.

let me reference that for you

Why Do Palestinian Deaths Outnumber Israeli Deaths?

Let me also give one of the comments too

These statistics differ from Btselem. Who do I trust? I think Btselem would be a more honest source of information than some highly dubious think tank in Israel which has not sourced by any leading rights organization or academics except those who write in policymic....suspicious me thinks.

 

[Soulman]

OK, so history it is then..

Last weekend only for the Israelis.... but we have to count twelve years of casualties on the other side....... nicely balanced.... try looking with more than one eye.

Westdene said 20 Israeli casualties, and meanwhile thousands of Palestinians.... not very balanced.

I agree, not very balanced at all.

 

[somerset]

You're missing the key word - CIVILIANS - most of the 1097 Israelis have been soldiers.

Absolute Shiite.... school bus bombings, cafe and restaurant bombings, .... get a grip... you do really need to think before posting... please.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Absolute Shiite.... school bus bombings, cafe and restaurant bombings, .... get a grip... you do really need to think before posting... please.

Even if my stats are incorrect, and I don't think they are that way out, Israel only needs to adhere to the UN resolutions against it and morally it takes the higher ground. Until such a time it can only blame itself for any attacks. Absolutely NO sympathy for Israel from me until then. Any civilians killed by Palestinian rockets until then should be laid at the feet of the Israeli government.

 

[somerset]

Even if my stats are incorrect, and I don't think they are that way out, Israel only needs to adhere to the UN resolutions against it and morally it takes the higher ground. Until such a time it can only blame itself for any attacks. Absolutely NO sympathy for Israel from me until then. Any civilians killed by Palestinian rockets until then should be laid at the feet of the Israeli government.

Your feelings about the whole dispute are one thing, your complete disregard of the facts is another. I can tell you, and I tell you with absolute certainty that your assertion that Israeli casualties are mostly military is so far wide of the mark as to make the rest of your fairly one sided commentary invalid.... sorry.

 

[BadFish]

Your feelings about the whole dispute are one thing, your complete disregard of the facts is another. I can tell you, and I tell you with absolute certainty that your assertion that Israeli casualties are mostly military is so far wide of the mark as to make the rest of your fairly one sided commentary invalid.... sorry.

Loving the arrogance that 'you can tell him'. For me your side of the argument would be better presented with ' I can provide you with evidence'. To be honest your 'absolute certianty' means nothing.

 

[somerset]

Loving the arrogance that 'you can tell him'. For me your side of the argument would be better presented with ' I can provide you with evidence'. To be honest your 'absolute certianty' means nothing.

Just do a bit of balanced research.... and I don't mean just left orientated pro-palestinian articles and broadcasts, try a bit of balance that's all that would be needed to have a seat on a well informed discussion platform.

 

[Soulman]

Loving the arrogance that 'you can tell him'. For me your side of the argument would be better presented with ' I can provide you with evidence'. To be honest your 'absolute certianty' means nothing.

Seems your evidence comes from the pro Palestinian sources, where as mine might be from the pro Israel..... so never the twain shall meet.
Seems strange to me that like last year, around this time, Hamas started lobbing rockets into Israel, when things were quiet..... same this year.
Let's Go Round Again.

 

[BadFish]

Just do a bit of balanced research.... and I don't mean just left orientated pro-palestinian articles and broadcasts, try a bit of balance that's all that would be needed to have a seat on a well informed discussion platform.

Plenty of balanced research over here mate, possibly with a little less arrogance.

In your balanced research do you agree that:

- Israel have ignored countless UN resolutions?
- Taken far more land than was agreed up when the country was divided in 1947?
- Built an Illegal wall
- Built Illegal checkpoints
- 1948 and 1967, a million Palestinians forced off their land and are still not able to return.

Once these issues are dealt with then the Israelis can take the moral high ground about rocket attacks. Until then I will continue to see them as the agressors

Would you please be so good as to tell me why you see the Palestinians as the aggressors (to help with my balanced view).

 

[somerset]

Plenty of balanced research over here mate, possibly with a little less arrogance.

In your balanced research do you agree that:

- Israel have ignored countless UN resolutions?
- Taken far more land than was agreed up when the country was divided in 1947?
- Built an Illegal wall
- Built Illegal checkpoints
- 1948 and 1967, a million Palestinians forced off their land and are still not able to return.

Once these issues are dealt with then the Israelis can take the moral high ground about rocket attacks. Until then I will continue to see them as the agressors

Would you please be so good as to tell me why you see the Palestinians as the aggressors (to help with my balanced view).

Dyor.... please.

 

[Steve Foster]

Even if my stats are incorrect, and I don't think they are that way out, Israel only needs to adhere to the UN resolutions against it and morally it takes the higher ground. Until such a time it can only blame itself for any attacks. Absolutely NO sympathy for Israel from me until then. Any civilians killed by Palestinian rockets until then should be laid at the feet of the Israeli government.

..... A first Wesdene Seagull admitting he knows bollocks about the issue.