[Football] Gary Lineker to step back from presenting MOTD

[Titanic]

Gary Lineker to step back from presenting MOTD

Gary Lineker to step back from presenting Match of the Day until agreement reached on social media use - BBC statement

www.bbc.co.uk

Gary Lineker is to step back from presenting Match of the Day until an agreement is reached on his social media use - BBC statement.
It follows an impartiality row over comments he made criticising the government's new asylum policy.
In a tweet, the presenter had compared the language used by the government to set out its plan to "that used by Germany in the 30s".

 

[The Clamp]

Originunknown’s tagline is “Binfesting”

He’s probably best ignored.

 

[Originunknown]

Originunknown’s tagline is “Binfesting”

He’s probably best ignored.

It's always a binfest when football and politics get mixed up...

I deliberately avoid political discussion on here but this issue highlights how mixing the two has far wider implications.

 

[The Clamp]

In a similar way to Corbyn basing his policies on The Communist Manifesto?

Which of course he didn’t, but it’s fun exaggerating out of anger and frustration.

I wasn’t exaggerating, I was pontificating.

Nothing would surprise me with this toxic mob.

It’s merely an observation on my own opinion.

And the “you’re angry” style of debate doesn’t wash with me. You believing that I’m angry doesn’t make it so

 

[birthofanorange]

Anyone who jumps immediately to likening something they don’t like to Nazism,

Point being, he didn't, did he?

 

[bluenitsuj]

Viewing figures up by half million last night.

 

[jcdenton08]

I wasn’t exaggerating, I was pontificating.

Nothing would surprise me with this toxic mob.

It’s merely an observation on my own opinion.

And the “you’re angry” style of debate doesn’t wash with me. You believing that I’m angry doesn’t make it so

I personally think it’s very unlikely that the Conservative policy makers are examining books written about Nazi social manipulation and then basing their policy off that. I think it’s a lot more likely that they are completely incompetent and desperate, they know their time is up and want to sound proactive ahead of an election (free and fair) when they’re the ones who caused the situation at hand.

I think it’s highly unlikely they are sitting in policy meetings at a round table discussing how best to emulate the feel of 1930’s Germany. I think that’s silly.

 

[The Clamp]

I personally think it’s very unlikely that the Conservative policy makers are examining books written about Nazi social manipulation and then basing their policy off that. I think it’s a lot more likely that they are completely incompetent and desperate, they know their time is up and want to sound proactive ahead of an election (free and fair) when they’re the ones who caused the situation at hand.

I think it’s highly unlikely they are sitting in policy meetings at a round table discussing how best to emulate the feel of 1930’s Germany. I think that’s silly.

I doubt they are discussing it as party policy.

 

[ROBS BROTHER]

But the point is, no-one is saying that the government are Nazis, nor that they are doing things that the Nazis did. They are saying that the language used in 1930s was to demonise and dehumanise, to make the population nervous of these groups and angry with them. It's a similar propaganda that Putin uses against Ukrainians to turn Russians against them and justify his war.

There are parallels in the  language used - but yes, no-one is denying that the Nazis were far far more extreme in their language/rhetoric, and eventually in their actions.

Let's just for one moment review the language that Lineker took such objection to and compared to what might have been said in 1930s Germany. I quote Suella Braverman's words " We are committed to helping those in need like the hundreds of thousands of people we have supported from Ukraine,Afghanistan and Hong Kong in recent years. But it's not fair that people who travel through a string of safe countries and then come to the UK illegally can jump the queue".
In what way does that remind anyone of sound mind of 1930s Germany?

 

[el_ciddy]

More likely to be Machiavelli, more suited to the institutions they went to school at.

I personally think it’s very unlikely that the Conservative policy makers are examining books written about Nazi social manipulation and then basing their policy off that. I think it’s a lot more likely that they are completely incompetent and desperate, they know their time is up and want to sound proactive ahead of an election (free and fair) when they’re the ones who caused the situation at hand.

I think it’s highly unlikely they are sitting in policy meetings at a round table discussing how best to emulate the feel of 1930’s Germany. I think that’s silly.

 

[peterward]

The problem you and people determined to take offence from the tweet and link it to things Linekar has not said is that the tweet itself is too nuanced.

Where has Linekar said the language around the Tory’s immigration policy is the same (identical) as the language in 30’s Germany?

You are purposely missing the whole point of the tweet.

It’s meant to shock but not to offend. Linekar wanted to draw similarities, not direct comparisons.

I acknowledge that this sort of subtlety sails over the heads of tabloid readers (including the Mirror) but broadsheet readers (including the Telegraph and Times) should clearly have enough gumption to understand where Linekar drew the line.

Where did Linekar say the language ‘was the same’.

Your repost will be, ‘we all knew what he meant!’.

Did we? Perhaps you only hear what you want to hear?

I would argue the exact same. Through your political lens you're seeing what you want to see. You claim authority on Linekers intent and that I "purposely" miss the point. Neither is true imho, our perceptions are obviously different, we'll have to agree to disagree!

My point was mainly at those who claim its is same as 1930s or that 1930s was merely beginnings of inflammatory langauge, or that language intent having parralels. I only quoted you as you made the point of the real horrors starting in 40s when they started as soon as Hitler came to power along with the genocidal messaging.

I wholeheartedly believe Lineker was making a comparison between Braverman language (underpinning immigration policy) to that used in 1930s Nazi Germany (underpinning genocide policy)

Can I wholeheartedly prove that was his intent? No, but I genuinely believe it was.

Do I think Lineker said it in full knowledge of the reality of 30s Germany and how ridiculous that statement was, No, I don't.

I'd guess it was an off the cuff, hyperbolic dig about hideous Braverman in his reply to the orignal tweeter.

That said, he did say it, it can clearly be perceived that way, and that comparison is factually wrong.
Id argue the language in Russia right now and the de humanising of Ukrainians which underpins Putins attempt at genocide, is more akin to 1930s Germany. Odious Braverman is a two Bob chancer, she's no Hitler or Putin.

Then what you get, because he attacked a particularly hideous Tory, (he is right about Braverman though imho) is people on left all coalescing around him, he can say it, he didnt say it, it was the same as 30s langauge, that wasnt his intent, whatabout X&Y etc, and people on right calling for his head, investigations, he's Spreading hate etc.
Neither are objective, more tribal loyalty.

Lineker, like you or I, can believe or say what he wants...... but the fact he did so on SM (publically) does leave him open to BBC impartiality rules and their perceiving potential reputational damage. He made a flippant comparison to Nazi Germany.

My employer has social media policy, It would be no different except, nobody will give 2 shits or notice what I say!

BBC 100% over reacted in suspending him and made this all much bigger but I don't think Lineker is bigger than BBC, and whilst he can say whatever he wants, he can't without similar jeopardy as any other person.

jcdentons post below, I 100% concur with, second paragraph is it in a waffle free nutshell.

For the 16th time, I support Lineker on this issue and his right to speak out when so many others have on the other side of the political divide without any issue.

Anyone who jumps immediately to likening something they don’t like to Nazism, either directly or as in this case indirectly, has already undermined their opinion though, because it is just pure hyperbole.

 

[The Clamp]

Let's just for one moment review the language that Lineker took such objection to and compared to what might have been said in 1930s Germany. I quote Suella Braverman's words " We are committed to helping those in need like the hundreds of thousands of people we have supported from Ukraine,Afghanistan and Hong Kong in recent years. But it's not fair that people who travel through a string of safe countries and then come to the UK illegally can jump the queue".
In what way does that remind anyone of sound mind of 1930s Germany?

That’s not the quote GL was referring to.

Bizarre point to attempt to make.

 

[A1X]

Yes they absolutely shouldn't when their tweets are sensationalist and driven by political agenda, as per Gary's. Whether you agree with tougher laws on immigration in the modern day is not related to the genocide in the war era and that comparison should never be made.

Still didn’t answer my question, so I will restate it one last time in simpler language.

Do you believe people should be entitled to air their views in all walks of life,or should they “stay in their lane” and only talk about things they directly work in?

 

[mikeyjh]

Let's just for one moment review the language that Lineker took such objection to and compared to what might have been said in 1930s Germany. I quote Suella Braverman's words " We are committed to helping those in need like the hundreds of thousands of people we have supported from Ukraine,Afghanistan and Hong Kong in recent years. But it's not fair that people who travel through a string of safe countries and then come to the UK illegally can jump the queue".
In what way does that remind anyone of sound mind of 1930s Germany?

I don't believe that you are that slow to think that Lineker is referring to a specific quote but if you are, here's some to ponder.

Suella Braverman - "It would “betray” British voters not to tackle the “waves of illegal migrants breaching our border”
Suella Braverman - “There are 100 million people around the world who could qualify for protection under our current laws. Let’s be clear. They are coming here.”
Suella Braverman - “The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion of our southern coast – and which party is not.”

You can also find Boris Johnson blaming immigrants for creating "unmanageable demands on our NHS and our welfare state" and "overstretching our local schools, our housing and public transport, and creates unsustainable pressure to build on precious green spaces", it's constant, deliberate and absolutely reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

 

[birthofanorange]

I don't believe that you are that slow to think that Lineker is referring to a specific quote but if you are, here's some to ponder.

Suella Braverman - "It would “betray” British voters not to tackle the “waves of illegal migrants breaching our border”
Suella Braverman - “There are 100 million people around the world who could qualify for protection under our current laws. Let’s be clear. They are coming here.”
Suella Braverman - “The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion of our southern coast – and which party is not.”

You can also find Boris Johnson blaming immigrants for creating "unmanageable demands on our NHS and our welfare state" and "overstretching our local schools, our housing and public transport, and creates unsustainable pressure to build on precious green spaces", it's constant, deliberate and absolutely reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

Spot on.

 

[ROBS BROTHER]

I don't believe that you are that slow to think that Lineker is referring to a specific quote but if you are, here's some to ponder.

Suella Braverman - "It would “betray” British voters not to tackle the “waves of illegal migrants breaching our border”
Suella Braverman - “There are 100 million people around the world who could qualify for protection under our current laws. Let’s be clear. They are coming here.”
Suella Braverman - “The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion of our southern coast – and which party is not.”

You can also find Boris Johnson blaming immigrants for creating "unmanageable demands on our NHS and our welfare state" and "overstretching our local schools, our housing and public transport, and creates unsustainable pressure to build on precious green spaces", it's constant, deliberate and absolutely reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

That's the beauty of selection Pick the ones you like and forget the rest

 

[rogersix]

I'm not sure he is compatible with the current BBC anymore.

the "current bbc" meaning a, client broadcaster?

 

[peterward]

Well, yeah, sure. If you ignore the multiple references in this thread to Joan Salter MBE - survivor of the Holocaust who confronted Suella Braverman about how her language is similar to that used in 1930s Germany, and German Professor Tanja Bueltmann

This has nothing to do with what Lineker said unless hes copying her?, if not its a side issue.

Joan Salter was born in Belgium in 1940 and she was forced to leave as a baby, the war was over when she was 5yo..... id guess she has some childhood memory and her story is vitally important and her suffering real, but she wasn't alive or in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was already murdering Jews and using genocidal language against them, the language Comparison that Lineker made even if indirectly, and that account of 1930s Germany and its language, is given in multiple places by many renowned sources for people to make assess that comparison themselves without need for others opinion.

If she said same to Braverman, that is her perogative. 30s Germany was infinitely worse and I genuinely dont believe we are going to engage in genocide, or that fair and compassionate brits, or its government, however truly abysmal would ever endorse anything like that
Its not comparative. Its political posturing.

Not quite sure why you think a Belgian 3 year old is more an authority on 30s Germany than say Robert Paxton?

Or because she is Jewish and survived as a Belgian baby if she says its just the same, and it isnt, then it must be, because she said so.... we can all make our own minds up!

 

[The Clamp]

That's the beauty of selection Pick the ones you like and forget the rest

Hitler liked dogs and symphony music.

Tough. Which side of him do we keep as his legacy? Do we pick the cultured animal lover or murdering hater of Jews?

Nuance, dear boy. Nuance.

 

[rogersix]

Other news/media outlets are available, for us all and for Gary to work at. He continues to take the significant salary, which he doesn't need.

He doesn't strike me as the most philanthropic, actions would speak louder than his commentary here which I don't think helps the issue.

how do you know what lineker does with his money?

 

[drew]

Let's just for one moment review the language that Lineker took such objection to and compared to what might have been said in 1930s Germany. I quote Suella Braverman's words " We are committed to helping those in need like the hundreds of thousands of people we have supported from Ukraine,Afghanistan and Hong Kong in recent years. But it's not fair that people who travel through a string of safe countries and then come to the UK illegally can jump the queue".
In what way does that remind anyone of sound mind of 1930s Germany?

Bit selective. Perhaps look at everything she says which pretty much is trying to blame those seeking asylum for everything that's wrong with the country. Trying to demonised a section of people. On LBC a caller suggested swapping the word 'immigrant' for 'Jew' and then decide whether the language is similar to that of the Weimar republic in the late 1920s early 1930s?

As for the examples given, we were woeful in our response to Ukraine, making it very difficult for refugees to get here and taking considerably less than many other European countries. Regarding Afghanistan, we surely have blood on our hands. We cut and run desperately quick and left many of those that helped us at the mercy of the Taliban. Finally, Hong Kong is quite different in that a lot of those coming had, prior to 1997 the right to settle in the UK anyway.