[Football] Gary Lineker to step back from presenting MOTD

[Titanic]

Gary Lineker to step back from presenting MOTD

Gary Lineker to step back from presenting Match of the Day until agreement reached on social media use - BBC statement

www.bbc.co.uk

Gary Lineker is to step back from presenting Match of the Day until an agreement is reached on his social media use - BBC statement.
It follows an impartiality row over comments he made criticising the government's new asylum policy.
In a tweet, the presenter had compared the language used by the government to set out its plan to "that used by Germany in the 30s".

 

[rogersix]

It's always a binfest when football and politics get mixed up...

I deliberately avoid political discussion on here but this issue highlights how mixing the two has far wider implications.

you're not one for logic, are you?

 

[rogersix]

I personally think it’s very unlikely that the Conservative policy makers are examining books written about Nazi social manipulation and then basing their policy off that. I think it’s a lot more likely that they are completely incompetent and desperate, they know their time is up and want to sound proactive ahead of an election (free and fair) when they’re the ones who caused the situation at hand.

I think it’s highly unlikely they are sitting in policy meetings at a round table discussing how best to emulate the feel of 1930’s Germany. I think that’s silly.

why was cameron using the term "swarm" all those years ago, then?

 

[rogersix]

Let's just for one moment review the language that Lineker took such objection to and compared to what might have been said in 1930s Germany. I quote Suella Braverman's words " We are committed to helping those in need like the hundreds of thousands of people we have supported from Ukraine,Afghanistan and Hong Kong in recent years. But it's not fair that people who travel through a string of safe countries and then come to the UK illegally can jump the queue".
In what way does that remind anyone of sound mind of 1930s Germany?

is that the only thing she has ever said?

 

[rogersix]

That's the beauty of selection Pick the ones you like and forget the rest

eh?

 

[willalbion]

is that the only thing she has ever said?

Braverman’s a wrong ‘un. The rhetoric she and her affiliates use undoubtably emboldens hammer wielding thugs who surrounded refugee centres recently. Even Pritti baulks at some of her language.

 

[The Clamp]

The story here isn’t what Lineker tweeted. Shall we discuss impartial figures? Tim Davie. Director General of the BBC. Loan arranger for and cohort of disgraced former PM and convicted criminal, Boris Johnson.

For years Davie has used his right leaning politics to wage an agenda on the BBC, taking arms against what he called “the BBC’s left leaning bias” by scrapping programs that could be critical of the Tory party. Shows such as The Mash Report.

We can have the debate about impartiality but let’s not start half way through the story with the Lineker side show. Some aspects of the BBC has been veering sharply to the Right for some time now.

 

[drew]

The story here isn’t what Lineker tweeted. Shall we discuss impartial figures? Tim Davie. Director Genwral of the BBC. Loan arranger for and cohort of disgraced former PM and convicted criminal, Boris Johnson.

For years Davie has used his right leaning politics to wage an agenda on the BBC, taking arms against what he called “the BBC’s left leaning bias” by scrapping programs that could be critical of the Tory party. Shows such as The Mash Report.

We can have the debate about impartiality but let’s not start half way through the story with the Lineker side show. Some aspects of the BBC has been veering sharply to the Right for some time now.

The Chairman, Sharp, was the facilitator of the loan. Davie however, is a former conservative councilor which raises questions about his impartiality. Also, did Davie come under pressure from Sharp to remove Lineker

 

[rogersix]

This has nothing to do with what Lineker said unless hes copying her?, if not its a side issue.

Joan Salter was born in Belgium in 1940 and she was forced to leave as a baby, the war was over when she was 5yo..... id guess she has some childhood memory and her story is vitally important and her suffering real, but she wasn't alive or in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was already murdering Jews and using genocidal language against them, the language Comparison that Lineker made even if indirectly, and that account of 1930s Germany and its language, is given in multiple places by many renowned sources for people to make assess that comparison themselves without need for others opinion.

If she said same to Braverman, that is her perogative. 30s Germany was infinitely worse and I genuinely dont believe we are going to engage in genocide, or that fair and compassionate brits, or its government, however truly abysmal would ever endorse anything like that
Its not comparative. Its political posturing.

Not quite sure why you think a Belgian 3 year old is more an authority on 30s Germany than say Robert Paxton?

Or because she is Jewish and survived as a Belgian baby if she says its just the same, and it isnt, then it must be, because she said so.... we can all make our own minds up!

what are your thoughts on the tory party infiltrating auntie beeb?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Viewing figures up by half million last night.

Again?

 

[The Clamp]

The Chairman, Sharp, was the facilitator of the loan. Davie however, is a former conservative councilor which raises questions about his impartiality. Also, did Davie come under pressure from Sharp to remove Lineker

Apologies, I got the two conflated.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't believe that you are that slow to think that Lineker is referring to a specific quote but if you are, here's some to ponder.

Suella Braverman - "It would “betray” British voters not to tackle the “waves of illegal migrants breaching our border”
Suella Braverman - “There are 100 million people around the world who could qualify for protection under our current laws. Let’s be clear. They are coming here.”
Suella Braverman - “The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion of our southern coast – and which party is not.”

You can also find Boris Johnson blaming immigrants for creating "unmanageable demands on our NHS and our welfare state" and "overstretching our local schools, our housing and public transport, and creates unsustainable pressure to build on precious green spaces", it's constant, deliberate and absolutely reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

Not to mention 30p Lee calling them rapists and murderers

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

The longer this goes on, the clearer it is becoming that Lineker's tweet is like a mirror being held up in front of people who like and support the Government's policy and language. They don't like what they see and are now angry, wanting Lineker silenced and punished.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Well, yeah, sure. If you ignore the multiple references in this thread to Joan Salter MBE - survivor of the Holocaust who confronted Suella Braverman about how her language is similar to that used in 1930s Germany, and German Professor Tanja Bueltmann

As well as being a Johnny Foreigner and an immigrant, Professor Tanja Bueltmann sounds like she might be an expert as well - we don't want her sort round here.

 

[Official Old Man]

Pat Nevin, sidekick at Newcastle v Wolves on 5Live, started his stint with a long rant. This follows him on Stephen Nolan Saturday night and World Service Sunday morning. Basics being the BBC asked him on Question Time where, as he said, he would be expected to voice his views. He said today that he was only at Newcastle on the understanding that he could say what he liked.

 

[Eric the meek]

Sorry its long!

Linekers important points?

It has nothing to do so much with his right to say what he wants, we all do, wether we're right or wrong. It starts with what he said and wether what he said could bring an employer or its image and reputation into disrepute.....an employer with a SM policy to prevent such incidences.

The general thrust of what Lineker said about then gov policy being callous and heartless (cruel) is right imho and many will agree, but to then make comparisons to 1930s Nazi Germany langauge (which underpinned policy of Genocide) was totally wrong and wholly inaccurate, hes entitled to hold that Ill informed view, but expressing it publically to millions could rightly be deemed damaging to BBC.

The 2 things that all those claiming it is actually the same as 1930s language, actually share in common, is in knowing little of the true realities of 30s Nazi Germany language (which underpinned actions in the 30s and 40s) and using the basic facets of 1930s propaganda!.... keep saying something erroneous enough times and people will eventually accept it as an established truth....even if it isnt!

When Hitler and his Nazis came to power from that very year, Germany’s innocent Jews literally started being killed in Germany from 1933, not 39 or 40s as some suggest. It was in smaller but still significant numbers at first but long before the 1940s well publicised holocaust exponentially accelerated that process. No one in the UK is proposing or killing those coming on Dingys or using language of genocide. It is poor language around a poorly thought out immigration policy, not the genocide of certain sections of British born citizens.

Within 1 year of coming to Power in 1934, Hitler’s Nazis had already condemned hundreds of innocent German born Jewish victims and sent them to die in now prepared Nazi concentration camps and loads more died in German police cells.

Another year later in 1935, 2 years into Hitlers 1933s rise to power, came the intro of the Nuremberg Race laws.

These banned all Jewish people or anyone of a Jewish origin from any government role or work in the German civil service, banned from working in German universities and in most professional vocations. This messaging of Jewish banning and posters denegrating the now murdered and completely excluded Jews was widespread in public places and propaganda news media.

The Nazis forcibly dissolved any relationships of marriage between anyone of Jewish German descent and those who they would call pure Germans (of non Jewish origins).

Jewish shops were looted and set on fire, and already the book bonfires started, 4 years before we entered the war, Hitler was already systematically trying to erase Jewish culture (Genocide), and destroy its literature whilst demonising, banning from public sphere and murdering them (just not yet at later scale)

By the time we had entered war in 39, thousands of Jews had been murdered for no other reason than ethnicity.

And Germany had now for 6 years been awash with images and messaging depicting Jews as pigs, or worse...... it was a total demonisation to justify Hitlers long planned systematic genocide (final solution), that started as soon as he entered power.

The language in 1930s Germany being used for a planned genocide, is absolutely not the same as an incompetent home secretary, dealing badly with 1 policy issue and trying to sound tough with poor language. "An invasion of illegal immigrants" is a callous thing to say, its also callous to say that compares to the true horrors of the genocidal language used and enacted in 1930s Germany. It does not compare to 1930s Germany at all.

Read Robert Paxtons "the anatomy of fascism" (one of leading experts on rise of fascism) or some of Timothy Snyders stuff on the period, and its incomparable to 2023 Britain or our shit government with one policy.

Linekers Equivalence is factually wrong. He may hold or express that view, as his right, if he does so on a public forum as a major face and representative of the BBC who pay him millions of taxpayers money....... They too have a right to say, that factually incorrect assertion breaks impartiality or may damage reputation.

Ofc you're right about idiot and hypocrite farage. He's not spreading hate, he's probably just trying to amp up his point as he was upset with Braverman, but his comparison wasn't accurate.

I hope this madness all ends soon and Lineker is back on MOTD.

Peter, I'm not going to argue with all or any of that. It must have taken you a long time to plan it and type it out.

But, and I hesitate to write this, none of it is relevant, because this thread, discussion and argument is all about the language. Nobody is trying to compare UK government actions with those of 1930s Germany.

Cast your mind back to Brexit.

'Take back control'.

This slogan implied that we didn't have control, the control is rightly ours, and we should take it back. As a slogan, it worked extraordinarily well. It was aimed at the lowest common denominator and won the Brexit vote. Now the slogan is:

'Stop the boats'.

The implies the boats MUST be stopped, and it is right and just that they get stopped. Sunak has already told us that stopping the boats is a priority for the British people. Just to be clear, he is - telling - us what our priorities are. A precursor to this slogan was Priti Patel putting forward a plan (that was thankfully not implemented) for a wave machine that would capsize the boats. Capsize the boats. Sink them. That really was her plan, that presumably got discussed at Cabinet level.

What will the next slogan be? 'Send them to Rwanda?' (Sorry, that's been done already). 'Sink the boats'? (we tried that one, but some lefty blob in cabinet blocked it). 'Stop the invasion'? 'Billions are coming'?

Peter, rather than looking for equivalence, and then claiming 'false equivalence' if you don't find it, lift your gaze. Widen your search criteria. Study the tone, gist, meaning, direction, and scale of the language. Stop the boats. Invasion. Billions.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's always a binfest when football and politics get mixed up...

I deliberately avoid political discussion on here but this issue highlights how mixing the two has far wider implications.

Maybe someone should tell the politicians. How many of them condemned the England team for taking the knee, and this one using Hitler to make his point.

 

[willalbion]

Not to mention 30p Lee calling them rapists and murderers

He’s a real prince. Man alive, what a bunch.

 

[birthofanorange]

I've never once felt 'proud' to be British - hell, it was an accident of birth, so there was no pride to be had. I DID count myself lucky, to have been born into what (was) a tolerant and caring country.
Now? Not so much at all, and I have no idea as to how it all went pear-shaped.
No, I was never 'proud', but I sure as hell feel embarrassed, by what we are becoming.
Shameful.

 

[jackalbion]

Get a young talented presenter in, on a sensible salary that doesn't have a vendetta against a political party to host your sports program. Sorted.

What young person doesn’t have a vendetta against them? You’ll be stuck with cranks like Le Tiss.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I personally think it’s very unlikely that the Conservative policy makers are examining books written about Nazi social manipulation and then basing their policy off that. I think it’s a lot more likely that they are completely incompetent and desperate, they know their time is up and want to sound proactive ahead of an election (free and fair) when they’re the ones who caused the situation at hand.

I think it’s highly unlikely they are sitting in policy meetings at a round table discussing how best to emulate the feel of 1930’s Germany. I think that’s silly.

They don’t, but they have been warned about inflammatory language several times.
Jo Cox’s sister, Tracy Brabin, warned Johnson, about inflammatory language in 2019.

Boris Johnson’s sister launches extraordinary attack on his ‘reprehensible’ Jo Cox comments as his allies warn of violence if Brexit is not delivered

Boris Johnson's sister has attacked his 'deeply reprehensible' language after he was accused of inciting violence against MPs.

www.businessinsider.com

Pritti Patel warned about calling lawyers activists, and lefty lawyers in 2020

Knife attack ‘inspired by Priti Patel’s activist lawyer remarks’

‘It must be ensured that no further lives are endangered as a result of her untruthful and deliberately inflammatory rhetoric,’ company targeted in incident reportedly writes in letter to Law Society

www.independent.co.uk

We have had two MPs assassinated in the last 7 years. That’s two too many.