[Help] Gambling: The Unique Addiction?

[Justice]

100% this. Companies have to do it but it’s taking a cup of water to a forest fire to some extent. The answer has to be much tighter controls within the companies to limit excessive betting (as was done with the fixed odds machines in shops) enforced by stronger regulation. They already have the tools in place to be able to do this

The amount of gambling going on in younger age groups is a big issue I think. Simply from the number of discussions I‘ve heard amongst the 20-somethings tells me it’s absolutely rife.

It’s actually a disgrace betting companies pretending they care

Paddy power is another one that annoys me they put out some amusing tweets to keep the punters engaged. Talk sport are bad offenders with the bookies actually on the phone with their odds before a game throwing in a small charity bet to try and look like the good guys.

 

[Lenny Rider]

100% this. Companies have to do it but it’s taking a cup of water to a forest fire to some extent. The answer has to be much tighter controls within the companies to limit excessive betting (as was done with the fixed odds machines in shops) enforced by stronger regulation. They already have the tools in place to be able to do this

The amount of gambling going on in younger age groups is a big issue I think. Simply from the number of discussions I‘ve heard amongst the 20-somethings tells me it’s absolutely rife.

I do fear for the 20 somethings for a multitude of reasons, gambling, drugs, mental health, there seems to be issues out there of epidemic proportions.

Example related to this thread, about 5 years ago my mate was horrified to discover that his then 21year old son had become addicted to roulette on his phone, and ran up debts of over £1,500, they were lucky enough to be in a position to bail him out, moved him back to a basic Nokia phone ( You can’t lose money on Snake) but replicate that scenario around the country but without the bailout?

But as has been alluded on this thread already there‘s a lot money being made by figures/companies with connections to the corridors of power, so any serious changes to the status quo would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No different to ‘drink responsibility’ or ‘Smoking kills’ in that those with addictions will continue to do what they want. However, if those messages stop anyone, especially kids, from taking up these activities or at least makes them think about moderating their drinking, smoking or betting, then they are worthwhile.

As for the impacts of gambling, anyone who hasn’t read it should look at the Paul Merton thread from earlier in the year which had some very good views on gambling.

I think that hiding tobacco products from general view in shops and not bombarding impressionable youngsters with 'cool' advertising is the sensible roadmap for drinking and betting regulation also. Bound to be massive resistance from those industries and their lobbyists, but where there's a will there's a way

 

[Justice]

I do fear for the 20 somethings for a multitude of reasons, gambling, drugs, mental health, there seems to be issues out there of epidemic proportions.

Example related to this thread, about 5 years ago my mate was horrified to discover that his then 21year old son had become addicted to roulette on his phone, and ran up debts of over £1,500, they were lucky enough to be in a position to bail him out, moved him back to a basic Nokia phone ( You can’t lose money on Snake) but replicate that scenario around the country but without the bailout?

But as has been alluded on this thread already there‘s a lot money being made by figures/companies with connections to the corridors of power, so any serious changes to the status quo would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online.

Can't speak for other companies, but it's only very recently, maybe in the last year or so, that bet365 stopped allowing you to top up your account with a credit card. It's debit card only now

 

[Lenny Rider]

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online.

Apologies, losses rather than debts, but it effectively left him with no money to live and pay DDs, rent, etc, so they bailed him out.

 

[Swansman]

Not a problem. It just seems a difficult thing to prove beyond reasonable doubt. If Swansman has examples from Sweden where teams have been found guilty and punished it would be great to see them though, perhaps more grist to the mill that everything's in the bookies' favour.

Three or four years or so the Swedish police started a special group to deal with match fixing.

While it is difficult to give a specific number, in a survey back in 2020, SVT (our BBC equivalent) sent a survey to all the players in the top three divisions. 619 players answered, 73 of them answered that they knew that they had participated in fixed games. And obviously the less money you earn, the more likely you are to accept some offer to fix the game, so what those numbers look like in the lower divisions... there's a lot of match fixing here. And then if you think of poorer countries than Sweden (there's a couple) I think we easily reach 100 games on a normal Saturday or Sunday.

Some of the more high-profile match fixing cases in Sweden:
before a game between AIK and IFK Göteborg, AIK goalie Kenny Stamatopoulous was contacted by two men (one being his former teammate, ex-City player Dickson Etuhu) who wanted him to lose the game for AIK while receiving a fee of £20-40k. Kenny went to the Swedish FA and told about it, and the game was cancelled. Etuhu was later found guilty.

Other famous cases is Pawel Cibicki getting a two year ban from FIFA due to picking up a yellow card that his brother had bettet on.

But these two examples are just the easier ones, the ones that got anywhere. Every week there's suspicions about a game, and it usually takes two years or so to investigate the claims and often it is impossible to track down what has happened and to really prove something. The Swedish police disbanded their match fixing-investigation group because it just took too much resources with too little gain: most of the fixing is done by Asian match-fixing syndicates and there's no realistic way of getting them to a court in Sweden.

Some things have been done to solve this in recent years. On licensed betting companies there it is no longer possible to bet on yellow cards in Swedish games, games where the majority of players are below 18 years are not available, games below the fourth division are not available. But on the Asian markets there's no need to follow these regulations.

So thats the situation in Sweden, one of the wealthiest countries on the planet where no one needs to get involved in match fixing. Then imagine what a goalkeeper in the Indian second division or something would do if they were offered two or three times their annual income to let in a few easy goals in a game.

Its a massive problem. England is probably one of the countries with the least amount of match fixing because anyone from PL to National League have a fair chance of making decent-good money, but in most countries football is a dirty, dirty criminal business.

 

[Horses Arse]

From TB's wiki page:

'Bloom's wealth has been accumulated primarily through proprietary or value betting on sports events. Bloom heads a private betting syndicate which is believed to have been continuously successful year on year for a sustained period of time'

Just saying

(and immediately somewhere down in deepest darkest Chailey the red phone starts ringing in the botcave )

Haha, the old Chailey bot. You'd have thought it would be more sophisticated.

 

[Justice]

Haha, the old Chailey bot. You'd have thought it would be more sophisticated.

You have to disagree with the club’s stance on something for immediate activation

 

[Justice]

Apologies, losses rather than debts, but it effectively left him with no money to live and pay DDs, rent, etc, so they bailed him out.

Probably started panicking and chasing losses. Hopefully a valuable lesson learnt a bollocking and now in debt to the parents. No need to change the phone he could of put himself on the self ban list.

 

[dazzer6666]

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online.

Easy enough to get an overdraft (gamblers will lie about why they need one) and run up to that......seen it hundreds of times

 

[Guinness Boy]

Three or four years or so the Swedish police started a special group to deal with match fixing.

While it is difficult to give a specific number, in a survey back in 2020, SVT (our BBC equivalent) sent a survey to all the players in the top three divisions. 619 players answered, 73 of them answered that they knew that they had participated in fixed games. And obviously the less money you earn, the more likely you are to accept some offer to fix the game, so what those numbers look like in the lower divisions... there's a lot of match fixing here. And then if you think of poorer countries than Sweden (there's a couple) I think we easily reach 100 games on a normal Saturday or Sunday.

Some of the more high-profile match fixing cases in Sweden:
before a game between AIK and IFK Göteborg, AIK goalie Kenny Stamatopoulous was contacted by two men (one being his former teammate, ex-City player Dickson Etuhu) who wanted him to lose the game for AIK while receiving a fee of £20-40k. Kenny went to the Swedish FA and told about it, and the game was cancelled. Etuhu was later found guilty.

Other famous cases is Pawel Cibicki getting a two year ban from FIFA due to picking up a yellow card that his brother had bettet on.

But these two examples are just the easier ones, the ones that got anywhere. Every week there's suspicions about a game, and it usually takes two years or so to investigate the claims and often it is impossible to track down what has happened and to really prove something. The Swedish police disbanded their match fixing-investigation group because it just took too much resources with too little gain: most of the fixing is done by Asian match-fixing syndicates and there's no realistic way of getting them to a court in Sweden.

Some things have been done to solve this in recent years. On licensed betting companies there it is no longer possible to bet on yellow cards in Swedish games, games where the majority of players are below 18 years are not available, games below the fourth division are not available. But on the Asian markets there's no need to follow these regulations.

So thats the situation in Sweden, one of the wealthiest countries on the planet where no one needs to get involved in match fixing. Then imagine what a goalkeeper in the Indian second division or something would do if they were offered two or three times their annual income to let in a few easy goals in a game.

Its a massive problem. England is probably one of the countries with the least amount of match fixing because anyone from PL to National League have a fair chance of making decent-good money, but in most countries football is a dirty, dirty criminal business.

Good post.

So you’re saying the 100 games is your educated opinion based on extrapolating rather than a proven fact - which is fine (and quite interesting). Stating it as fact and that person X is involved is far more legally difficult if you get my drift.

 

[Justice]

Easy enough to get an overdraft (gamblers will lie about why they need one) and run up to that......seen it hundreds of times

You would think the bank would step in if they noticed overdrafts going to online casino sites or bookies.

 

[Swansman]

Good post.

So you’re saying the 100 games is your educated opinion based on extrapolating rather than a proven fact - which is fine (and quite interesting). Stating it as fact and that person X is involved is far more legally difficult if you get my drift.

Yes. If going by proven facts there's like one fixed game in the world every weekend because getting this to courts is difficult.

Not saying that person X (or Y) is involved or even aware of which games that are fixed, but with data it is definitely possible to detect strange game patterns - "this team has an uncanny ability to concede three quick goals early in first half" - and to use that to your advantage.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I always like to replace gambling with heroin and then try the "when the fun stops, stop" mantra. Complete nonsense.

 

[attila]

It is obviously a personal choice, so I would never say ban gambling completely, but IMO there is no way it should be allowed to sponsor football or any other high profile sport or entertainment.

 

[dazzer6666]

It is obviously a personal choice, so I would never say ban gambling completely, but IMO there is no way it should be allowed to sponsor football or any other high profile sport or entertainment.

Wouldn’t be so bad if was fairly discreet, but it’s an absolute bombardment in the PL particularly - shirts, hoardings, multiple TV ads etc etc.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Three or four years or so the Swedish police started a special group to deal with match fixing.

While it is difficult to give a specific number, in a survey back in 2020, SVT (our BBC equivalent) sent a survey to all the players in the top three divisions. 619 players answered, 73 of them answered that they knew that they had participated in fixed games. And obviously the less money you earn, the more likely you are to accept some offer to fix the game, so what those numbers look like in the lower divisions... there's a lot of match fixing here. And then if you think of poorer countries than Sweden (there's a couple) I think we easily reach 100 games on a normal Saturday or Sunday.

Some of the more high-profile match fixing cases in Sweden:
before a game between AIK and IFK Göteborg, AIK goalie Kenny Stamatopoulous was contacted by two men (one being his former teammate, ex-City player Dickson Etuhu) who wanted him to lose the game for AIK while receiving a fee of £20-40k. Kenny went to the Swedish FA and told about it, and the game was cancelled. Etuhu was later found guilty.

Other famous cases is Pawel Cibicki getting a two year ban from FIFA due to picking up a yellow card that his brother had bettet on.

But these two examples are just the easier ones, the ones that got anywhere. Every week there's suspicions about a game, and it usually takes two years or so to investigate the claims and often it is impossible to track down what has happened and to really prove something. The Swedish police disbanded their match fixing-investigation group because it just took too much resources with too little gain: most of the fixing is done by Asian match-fixing syndicates and there's no realistic way of getting them to a court in Sweden.

Some things have been done to solve this in recent years. On licensed betting companies there it is no longer possible to bet on yellow cards in Swedish games, games where the majority of players are below 18 years are not available, games below the fourth division are not available. But on the Asian markets there's no need to follow these regulations.

So thats the situation in Sweden, one of the wealthiest countries on the planet where no one needs to get involved in match fixing. Then imagine what a goalkeeper in the Indian second division or something would do if they were offered two or three times their annual income to let in a few easy goals in a game.

Its a massive problem. England is probably one of the countries with the least amount of match fixing because anyone from PL to National League have a fair chance of making decent-good money, but in most countries football is a dirty, dirty criminal business.

England went through a phase of mystery floodlight 'failures' a while back, leading to abandoned matches. Many of those got traced back to organised criminal activity

 

[oldboyroy]

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online .

Debts with who? If you haven’t got the money on your debit card you can’t gamble online.

The credit card change came in recently didn't it, within the last few years?.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

I worked for William Hill for 30 years, the first 15 were fine, saw a few sights but nothing I couldn’t handle. Then came the FOBTs and by then I was sort of trapped as I felt I had no options with regards to a change of employment. The suffering I observed was painful, I hated seeing it but there was little I could do. I did more RGIs (Responsible Gambling Interactions) than a lot of my colleagues however, the punter was usually non responsive, or it simply wasn’t practical as I often worked on my own while someone underage was on one machine, another machine had someone spitting and punching it while I was keeping an eye out for self excluded punters. money launderers or drug addicts locking themselves in the bog. Meanwhile I was expecting to sign people up for a bastard loyalty card. There was a culture of fear amongst the middle management obsessed with targets regardless of the human cost. When I plucked up the courage to leave my mental and physical health improved ten fold.