[Politics] French presidential election 2022

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh, we're not allowed to know where people live, unlike, say. local election candidates.

But we do know their account set up histories and any weird peccadillos therein.

You've just ruined my joke with your 'so called' facts

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Let's face it, Trump recently voted out, Le Pen failing here, BoJo on his last dishonest legs. This alt-Right, post truth shitshow is on its last legs. Back to normal once someone does the decent thing and bumps off Putin.

Putin is pulling all those strings for sure in his hybrid war against us, but it's not over yet sadly.

 

[Guinness Boy]

"Telling people how to vote" is literally the point of campaigning in a liberal democracy. You're free to disagree, assuming you have the mental capacity to do so.

It's also literally the point of "votes" in places like Iran and Russia.

Are people seriously conflating centerist speeches and adverts and NSC posts with Putin and the Islamic Republic?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Funny banter/narrative for these nsc ding-dong culture wars, but sadly and alarmingly Trump will win the next presidential election.

Biden and Harris now condemned by an overwhelming majority.

Not good if you’re; black, or gay, or need help with healthcare, or care about man’s destruction of the planet.

I honestly think Trump will have a Black Swan health event and not even be on the ballot.

Certainly no point in making predictions about his victory this far out.

Let's face it, he is hardly in the prime of Health.

 

[B-right-on]

I honestly think Trump will have Black Swan health event and not even be on the ballot.

Certainly no point in making predictions about his victory this far out.

Let's face it, he is hardly in the prime of Health.

Compared to Biden, he's practically in the prime of his life

 

[Weststander]

I honestly think Trump will have Black Swan health event and not even be on the ballot.

Certainly no point in making predictions about his victory this far out.

Let's face it, he is hardly in the prime of Health.

I privately hope for that, but thought I’d be condemned for saying it.

My justification for such nasty thoughts - wanting the climate change accords to mean something, empathy for blacks and the poor ill in The States.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"Telling people how to vote" is literally the point of campaigning in a liberal democracy. You're free to disagree, assuming you have the mental capacity to do so.

It's also literally the point of "votes" in places like Iran and Russia.

Are people seriously conflating centerist speeches and adverts and NSC posts with Putin and the Islamic Republic?

It's part of the 'they are all as bad as each other' protocol, which is linked with the 'so it is perfectly fine for me to campaign for a racist/Nazi' agenda. Both are facilitated by the 'none of this really matters to ordinary people' doctrine.

 

[B-right-on]

I think that the Le Pen vote is a protest vote against the situations in France which are getting worse and worse. Prior to the lockdown, I drove from Calais to Spain for 8 years in a row. Going through the centre of Paris we saw more and more homeless people (vast majority non white) sleeping under tarpaulin on the sides of the dual carriageways.

Each year it's got worse and worse.

No idea how or what the effects are to the local areas as we didn't stop, but I'd think what on earth do these people do for food, money, healthcare, cleaning, toiletries, hygiene, kids schooling and so on.

So MLP and her racist rants get agreement because of the permissiveness of Macron and other EU leaders allowing anyone to enter. But not have the infrastructure and ability to look after the tens of thousands who come in.

Yes allow these people in but get them housed and looked after otherwise you're just giving fuel to the likes of MLP.

Someone mentioned Hitler getting voted in. He did because of the situations in Germany at the time. Without the desperate and widespread issues in Germany at the time, noone would have voted for his vision of Germany being restored to the power it was.

 

[nicko31]

Worrying that In 2022 that a major Western country votes only 60/40 AGAINST Facisim.

Agree, disturbing 42% find it acceptable to vote for MLP, despite the faux moderate rhetoric she didn't change at all over the past 5 years, France is angry and there's a lot of dis-content.

But lets face it, look across the pond at what is going on there, maybe even more people are prepared for vote for a fascist

I'd like to say we've reached peak populism globally but personally I don't think we're out of the woods yet. Here I'm a lot more optimistic, albeit learning the hard way

 

[beorhthelm]

What would you say, specifically, that centre ground politicians are getting wrong?

And how would you suggest that Marxism or Fascism solves the problem?

im not suggesting Marxism or Fascism sovlve anything, im certain they wouldnt. its odd to ask what the center grouns is getting wrong, unless you're saying everyone's happy. my objection is insulting people for voting a certain way, rather than ask why they did, what politicans should be doing and addressing those issues. are 42% of French racists, or approve of other policies, or as claimed simply stupid? we can say they're misled, uninformed, calling people stupid for voting one way sounds like not wanting to hear them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think that the Le Pen vote is a protest vote against the situations in France which are getting worse and worse. Prior to the lockdown, I drove from Calais to Spain for 8 years in a row. Going through the centre of Paris we saw more and more homeless people (vast majority non white) sleeping under tarpaulin on the sides of the dual carriageways.

Each year it's got worse and worse.

No idea how or what the effects are to the local areas as we didn't stop, but I'd think what on earth do these people do for food, money, healthcare, cleaning, toiletries, hygiene, kids schooling and so on.

So MLP and her racist rants get agreement because of the permissiveness of Macron and other EU leaders allowing anyone to enter. But not have the infrastructure and ability to look after the tens of thousands who come in.

Yes allow these people in but get them housed and looked after otherwise you're just giving fuel to the likes of MLP.

Someone mentioned Hitler getting voted in. He did because of the situations in Germany at the time. Without the desperate and widespread issues in Germany at the time, noone would have voted for his vision of Germany being restored to the power it was.

There may be some parallels between modern France and 1920s/30s Germany, but it wasn't that Germany was awash with new immigrants from far away lands living in tents in German parks.

It was an economic mess created initially by excesive 'reparations' after WW1. Indiginous Germans were starving so they turned to the man of wild promises.

In France the presence of immigrants with dark skin living on the streets is not a cause of indiginous French people starving, but the cause of indiginous French people holding their noses.

In France the solution to foreign immigrants on the streets should be to deal with foreign immigrants on the streets. With a plan. It may mean spending a few Euros in the process, but it would have been a lot smarter to have spent a few Francs back in the day. Unfortunately voters everywhere don't seem to like governments spending money on immigrants, while at the same time expecting gorvernments to do something about them. Ironic, that.

In Germany Hitler invented a plan to deal with indiginous Germans starving. It was to round up the indiginous Jews, steal their money and propery, and kill them all.

I think it may be possible to draw parallels here, but when put into simple language with an attempt to identify cause and effect, the parallels vanish.

That said, I no longer understimate any electorate's capacity to fall for charlatans with the gift of certainty, and I no longer underestimate any electorate's willingness to suspend its disbelief, and embrace fantastical tomfoolery, if they think there is something in it for themselves. Bre'r Frog, with his whimsical ability to desert well-established conventional political parties in pursuit of a quick fix, can be a bit of a worry, but I don't think they will go Full Nazi anytime soon.

As for people living on the street, I was up in London yesterday and there are loads of people sleeping rough round Victoria station, on Victoria Street and surrounds. Loads. English, though. So that's OK......Farrage won't be interested. Neither is Johnson.

 

[jakarta]

There may be some parallels between modern France and 1920s/30s Germany, but it wasn't that Germany was awash with new immigrants from far away lands living in tents in German parks.

It was an economic mess created initially by excesive 'reparations' after WW1. Indiginous Germans were starving so they turned to the man of wild promises.

In France the presence of immigrants with dark skin living on the streets is not a cause of indiginous French people starving, but the cause of indiginous French people holding their noses.

In France the solution to foreign immigrants on the streets should be to deal with foreign immigrants on the streets. With a plan. It may mean spending a few Euros in the process, but it would have been a lot smarter to have spent a few Francs back in the day. Unfortunately voters everywhere don't seem to like governments spending money on immigrants, while at the same time expecting gorvernments to do something about them. Ironic, that.

In Germany Hitler invented a plan to deal with indiginous Germans starving. It was to round up the indiginous Jews, steal their money and propery, and kill them all.

I think it may be possible to draw parallels here, but when put into simple language with an attempt to identify cause and effect, the parallels vanish.

That said, I no longer understimate any electorate's capacity to fool for charlatans with the gift of certainty, and I no longer estimate any electorate's willingness to suspend its disbelief, and embrace fantastical tomfoolery, if they think there is something in it for themselves. Bre'r Frog, with his whimsical ability to desert well-established conventional political parties in pursuit of a quick fix, can be a bit of a worry, but I don't think they will go Full Nazi anytime soon.

As for people living on the street, I was up in London yesterday and there are loads of people sleeping rough round Victoria station, on Victoria Street and surrounds. Loads. English, though. So that's OK......Farrage won't be interested. Neither is Johnson.

Sad but true...

 

[Weststander]

Agree, disturbing 42% find it acceptable to vote for MLP, despite the faux moderate rhetoric she didn't change at all over the past 5 years, France is angry and there's a lot of dis-content.

But lets face it, look across the pond at what is going on there, maybe even more people are prepared for vote for a fascist

I'd like to say we've reached peak populism globally but personally I don't think we're out of the woods yet. Here I'm a lot more optimistic, albeit learning the hard way

The next government here will, imho, be centre left-SNP alliance on a vote by vote basis.
(Yes, I know so much can change before then).

But I look internationally, as we don’t live in a bubble. Hungary, Russia, China and the USA under Trump 2 is still widespread aggressive nationalism or populism, compared to say 20 years, with a huge adverse impact on the UK and EU as we’re seeing just now.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

im not suggesting Marxism or Fascism sovlve anything, im certain they wouldnt. its odd to ask what the center grouns is getting wrong, unless you're saying everyone's happy. my objection is insulting people for voting a certain way, rather than ask why they did, what politicans should be doing and addressing those issues. are 42% of French racists, or approve of other policies, or as claimed simply stupid? we can say they're misled, uninformed, calling people stupid for voting one way sounds like not wanting to hear them.

I think you'll find that's nonsense. A lot of us spend a lot of time moaning about their marriage, but that doesn't mean we should give serious consideration to (i) castration or (ii) bestiality. The trick is to engage and try to help fix the things we consider to be worthwhile.

Also I am not interested in what gadfly-brained numbskulls want, say they want, or think they want. They and their voting allowance are the price I have to pay for the bloody unfiltered general enfranchisement bestowed upon the UK's over 18s. Personally I wouldn't let anyone vote till they had passed a basic competence assessment and screen for narcissistic personality disorder.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agree, disturbing 42% find it acceptable to vote for MLP, despite the faux moderate rhetoric she didn't change at all over the past 5 years, France is angry and there's a lot of dis-content.

But lets face it, look across the pond at what is going on there, maybe even more people are prepared for vote for a fascist

I'd like to say we've reached peak populism globally but personally I don't think we're out of the woods yet. Here I'm a lot more optimistic, albeit learning the hard way

Slovenia ditched their right wing populist today, so Europe is a better place than yesterday.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think that the Le Pen vote is a protest vote against the situations in France which are getting worse and worse. Prior to the lockdown, I drove from Calais to Spain for 8 years in a row. Going through the centre of Paris we saw more and more homeless people (vast majority non white) sleeping under tarpaulin on the sides of the dual carriageways.

Each year it's got worse and worse.

No idea how or what the effects are to the local areas as we didn't stop, but I'd think what on earth do these people do for food, money, healthcare, cleaning, toiletries, hygiene, kids schooling and so on.

So MLP and her racist rants get agreement because of the permissiveness of Macron and other EU leaders allowing anyone to enter. But not have the infrastructure and ability to look after the tens of thousands who come in.

Yes allow these people in but get them housed and looked after otherwise you're just giving fuel to the likes of MLP.

Someone mentioned Hitler getting voted in. He did because of the situations in Germany at the time. Without the desperate and widespread issues in Germany at the time, noone would have voted for his vision of Germany being restored to the power it was.

Macron is the first President to win a second term since 1965.

 

[jcdenton08]

It feels like a lot of the time when poor leaders gain/retain power, it is by virtue of the opposition being even less electable to the moderate voter, rather than their own qualities.

Macron is hugely unpopular, yet won because the alternative was a literal fascist. Trump won because the alternative was Hillary, who had a disaster of a campaign.

We have the Tories because of Corbyn and "Momentum".

The French chose Macron out of necessity.

 

[Weststander]

It feels like a lot of the time when poor leaders gain/retain power, it is by virtue of the opposition being even less electable to the moderate voter, rather than their own qualities.

Macron is hugely unpopular, yet won because the alternative was a literal fascist. Trump won because the alternative was Hillary, who had a disaster of a campaign.

We have the Tories because of Corbyn and "Momentum".

The French chose Macron out of necessity.

But most voting Yanks still voted for Hilary over the racist.

 

[B-right-on]

There may be some parallels between modern France and 1920s/30s Germany, but it wasn't that Germany was awash with new immigrants from far away lands living in tents in German parks.

It was an economic mess created initially by excesive 'reparations' after WW1. Indiginous Germans were starving so they turned to the man of wild promises.

In France the presence of immigrants with dark skin living on the streets is not a cause of indiginous French people starving, but the cause of indiginous French people holding their noses.

In France the solution to foreign immigrants on the streets should be to deal with foreign immigrants on the streets. With a plan. It may mean spending a few Euros in the process, but it would have been a lot smarter to have spent a few Francs back in the day. Unfortunately voters everywhere don't seem to like governments spending money on immigrants, while at the same time expecting gorvernments to do something about them. Ironic, that.

In Germany Hitler invented a plan to deal with indiginous Germans starving. It was to round up the indiginous Jews, steal their money and propery, and kill them all.

I think it may be possible to draw parallels here, but when put into simple language with an attempt to identify cause and effect, the parallels vanish.

That said, I no longer understimate any electorate's capacity to fall for charlatans with the gift of certainty, and I no longer underestimate any electorate's willingness to suspend its disbelief, and embrace fantastical tomfoolery, if they think there is something in it for themselves. Bre'r Frog, with his whimsical ability to desert well-established conventional political parties in pursuit of a quick fix, can be a bit of a worry, but I don't think they will go Full Nazi anytime soon.

As for people living on the street, I was up in London yesterday and there are loads of people sleeping rough round Victoria station, on Victoria Street and surrounds. Loads. English, though. So that's OK......Farrage won't be interested. Neither is Johnson.

Totally agree HWT. Couldn't be bothered to go onto the history and the fact that 'we' created the situation which lead to Hilter's rise. It is a strech drawing parallells I agree, but the point is that 'situations' are created by Govts and the 'people' vote for any smooth talking trickster with a quick-fix promise that usually leads to a far worse situation with a Fascist/Marxist/Communist agenda. Again Russia and the Csar with the Bolshevik Revolution, those in power being plain stupid and creating the situations for their demise.

Anyway looks like common sense has prevailed, but unless he (Macron) sorts out the situations, I can see MLP gaining more and more votes next time. Unfortuantely.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Totally agree HWT. Couldn't be bothered to go onto the history and the fact that 'we' created the situation which lead to Hilter's rise. It is a strech drawing parallells I agree, but the point is that 'situations' are created by Govts and the 'people' vote for any smooth talking trickster with a quick-fix promise that usually leads to a far worse situation with a Fascist/Marxist/Communist agenda. Again Russia and the Csar with the Bolshevik Revolution, those in power being plain stupid and creating the situations for their demise.

Anyway looks like common sense has prevailed, but unless he (Macron) sorts out the situations, I can see MLP gaining more and more votes next time. Unfortuantely.

Yes, indeed. I do so hate living in 'interesting times'.....