[Football] Football Governance Bill / Independent Football Regulator

[Weststander]

Should all 70 or 80 year olds pay cheaper prices to see a PL game? Rather than struggling young folk, with a mortgage or sky high rent to pay? They’re priced out of football.

 

[A1X]

“Christmas can go f*** itself” agree turkeys

 

[Weststander]

The thing we forget nowadays is that it is often pensioners who can afford it the most. Having worked in the charity sector for 25 years, I can tell you that it is pensioners who are the lifeblood. Much of the national wealth is held by them. House ownership, pensions, savings.

When the debate broke about the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance it occurred to me that those who have most trouble with heating bills are probably young working folk- especially those paying high rents. This is not to belittle pensioners who are struggling, but the real picture is a lot broader.

If this to be a political thread.

The problem with the WFA withdrawal was that it was rushed through, hurting 880k and another 1.4m just above pension credit who’ll be hurt this winter. People who are poor in most peoples eyes, barely surviving. We can brutally say with a Labour hat on because it suits us now wealthy boomers, but it’s never that simple. Millions of old folk pay market rents, or barely chisel an existence.

 

[Bozza]

Behind a paywall and couldn’t find a copy via a search engine.

I'm just going to mention this website for no good reason at all...

archive.ph

create a copy of a webpage that will always be up

archive.ph

 

[LamieRobertson]

If this to be a political thread.

The problem with the WFA withdrawal was that it was rushed through, hurting 880k and another 1.4m just above pension credit who’ll be hurt this winter. People who are poor in most peoples eyes, barely surviving. We can brutally say with a Labour hat on because it suits us now wealthy boomers, but it’s never that simple. Millions of old folk pay market rents, or barely chisel an existence.

Well said

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

So why are you not shouting for a regulator of the West End Theatres where top price seats can now be £300 or more with no concessions for pensioners.

Are you really comparing a West end Theatre with every local community football club in the land?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Are you really comparing a West end Theatre with every local community football club in the land?

Yes. Yes he was.

 

[Eeyore]

If this to be a political thread.

The problem with the WFA withdrawal was that it was rushed through, hurting 880k and another 1.4m just above pension credit who’ll be hurt this winter. People who are poor in most peoples eyes, barely surviving. We can brutally say with a Labour hat on because it suits us now wealthy boomers, but it’s never that simple. Millions of old folk pay market rents, or barely chisel an existence.

Forgive my failure to make the same point. I am absolutely sure that there are pensioners who will struggle because of the decision. My personal belief was that the winter fuel allowance should never have been introduced in the way it was as it has given, possibly billions, to folk who didn't need it. It should have been thought through at the start to make sure help got to those who did need it. There are those that do, and there would certainly be a significant number of pensioners among them. The decision to just stop it in the way it was made was wrong. My point was more that, in line with the theme of the thread, we talk about pensioners being priced out of football when I see it is equally as much working folk who cannot afford to be going. In many cases more so.

 

[dazzer6666]

Hmmm. I have to say I don’t agree with much of what Barber has said. Why would this regulator be overly bureaucratic and costly? The three key points put to the CEOs is the fit-and-proper test, control over payments to the EFL clubs and parachute payments. Fit-and-proper test is already being done, and the other two are currently decided by the EPL…having a regulator handle these is, in effect, free outsourcing. Struggling to understand Barber’s concerns about this being costly and having make cuts or pass the costs on. Where’s the cost coming from? Odd.

Bloom and Barber normally come across well, but I remember the live meeting with the regulator about a year ago Bloom was a bit flustered and unprepared and Barber was the same as this Times interview i.e. making responses which, at face value, don’t stack up.

It won’t be anything like ‘free’ though…….guaranteed it’ll end up like pretty much every other regulatory body - expensive, bloated, inefficient and (seen as) interfering. There’ll be tons of reporting for the clubs to do, scrutiny, inspections and the like. Every time there is a significant issue every club will get a load of work to do, even if they’re not ‘guilty’ because a) they‘ll have to check and report back and b) a load of new controls will get mandated (with associated expenses)

It’s an awkward one…….because football has proven enough times that it can’t effectively self-regulate. I can see where PB is coming from because he thinks we get absolutely everything right (even when we don’t)

 

[Weststander]

Forgive my failure to make the same point. I am absolutely sure that there are pensioners who will struggle because of the decision. My personal belief was that the winter fuel allowance should never have been introduced in the first place as it has given, possibly billions, to folk who didn't need it. It should have been thought through at the start to make sure help got to those who needed it. There are those that do, and there would certainly be a significant number of pensioners among them. The decision to just stop it in the way it was made was wrong. My point was more that, in line with the theme of the thread, we talk about pensioners being priced out of football when I see it is equally as much working folk who cannot afford to be going. In many cases more so.

Football - all pensioners getting cheaper prices because they might’ve supported the Albion for a long time (where’s the evidence of that anyway), seems almost bottom of the pile to me. I knew a very poor building subcontractor, bloody hard working, family man … he could never afford to see his beloved Albion. I used to sneak our ST cards when you could these things, when we were away.

There are about 3 or 4 million poor pensioners where every penny counts, WFA was a key part of their armoury to get through a winter.

Definitely agree that the rest shouldn’t get it, including my parents.

 

[Black Rod]

Can someone lend Paul Barber OBE a copy of Build a Bonfire to read, complete with a little post-it note reminding him there are 72 other clubs outside the Premier League and many more further down the pyramid?

 

[Springal]

Can someone lend Paul Barber OBE a copy of Build a Bonfire to read, complete with a little post-it note reminding him there are 72 other clubs outside the Premier League and many more further down the pyramid?

And Tony

 

[Bozza]

The "we'd have to charge the fans more" seems to be a favourite reason for the club to use if they really don't want to do something.

It was also used as one of the reasons for not installing Safe Standing for a while.

It's not a great look for a business that has revenues in the region of £200m, paying many employees millions of pounds per year to put on this "we don't have two pennies to rub together, so the fans will have to stump up" act if something comes along they don't like.

Paul Barber is a great communicator and fantastic ambassador for the club, but on this subject he doesn't come across well at all. Might be the one area where he gives a polite "no" to the media requests.

 

[studio150]

Yes. Yes he was.

No I wasn't, so please don't suggest otherwise. I could have easily quoted many other pleasure activities, where pensioners concessions have been completed eroded, or effectively eroded to next nothing.

It was you that mentioned the pension concession on football tickets.

You have zero idea what is in mind ,so don't try and guess.

 

[jackalbion]

It’s an awkward one…….because football has proven enough times that it can’t effectively self-regulate. I can see where PB is coming from because he thinks we get absolutely everything right (even when we don’t)

I agree to a certain extent, but this comment puzzled me a bit:

Are we really using costs to fans, the academy and our commitment to the women’s game as a bargaining chip in this. I won’t be disingenuous because I don’t think this is what is meant, but to me, it comes across in a way that says: “We don’t want a regulator, but you do, so if you want it, you’ll have to pay for it.” I don’t particularly think with the money available in Men’s football the two options if we have to fund a regulator should be, cut the academy and women’s team or increase ticket prices. That’s very simple way of looking at it, as a football club I’d like to see us look at different ways to fund it that doesn’t involve punishing the fans, rather than this narrow approach. The FSA, all political parties and I’d say most fans, there has to be a more constructive option than those two options. I think his words on rail companies honouring tickets is good, but the way you get that sort of regulation is through a regulator, people want football at 3pm, it would be better the games not moved and that’s the choice of the league (which comes under a regulator).

 

[Eeyore]

Football - all pensioners getting cheaper prices because they might’ve supported the Albion for a long time (where’s the evidence of that anyway), seems almost bottom of the pile to me. I knew a very poor building subcontractor, bloody hard working, family man … he could never afford to see his beloved Albion. I used to sneak our ST cards when you could these things, when we were away.

There are about 3 or 4 million poor pensioners where every penny counts, WFA was a key part of their armoury to get through a winter.

Definitely agree that the rest shouldn’t get it, including my parents.

Yes, I think we are both in agreement really.

I don't have a season ticket and haven't been for some time due to health issues. I have often looked at matches and thought about attending. But I would need to go where you don't have to stand, so the North Stand is out. With that in mind, the cheapest price for Everton is £46. It's certainly not something I would be contemplating very often in the sense that it's a luxury treat as opposed to something I would do semi-regularly anyway. Sometimes I look at the folk at games on the television and wonder how they afford it.

I'm happy to enjoy the success of the club though. I did the hard yards when we were awful, standing in the pissing rain at the Goldstone and on the windswept terraces of the north. I suspect any regular return will be to Whitehawk. I do think that non-league attendances have improved since Covid times as folk have jumped on the cheaper yet just as enjoyable experience.

 

[Springal]

I can see why Tony Bloom, who largely does things right, and has invested his personal fortune of £500M+ doesn’t want a regulator involved , and I’d be the same I think.

But for the good of the game , especially with greedy players and agents it’s a good idea in theory, but not convinced it’ll be put into practice well

 

[jackalbion]

No I wasn't, so please don't suggest otherwise. I could have easily quoted many other pleasure activities, where pensioners concessions have been completed eroded, or effectively eroded to next nothing.

It was you that mentioned the pension concession on football tickets.

You have zero idea what is in mind ,so don't try and guess.

It’s not just pensioners though, when I was of the correct age, there seemed to be a lot more student/under 21 tickets around, at Villa I believe it was the same price as adult.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It won’t be anything like ‘free’ though…….guaranteed it’ll end up like pretty much every other regulatory body - expensive, bloated, inefficient and (seen as) interfering. There’ll be tons of reporting for the clubs to do, scrutiny, inspections and the like. Every time there is a significant issue every club will get a load of work to do, even if they’re not ‘guilty’ because a) they‘ll have to check and report back and b) a load of new controls will get mandated (with associated expenses)

It’s an awkward one…….because football has proven enough times that it can’t effectively self-regulate. I can see where PB is coming from because he thinks we get absolutely everything right (even when we don’t)

I personally can’t see much of an increased burden with the three points being addressed in the Times piece. As I say, these are things which already happen. Maybe there is from the rest of the regulator’s remit but I don’t see why it should be overly bureaucratic and costly. After all, FFP must be one of the more expensive regulatory overheads but Barbs never complained about this; it can’t be that much otherwise he’d have said so.

You also raise a good point about getting things right…this should imply our regulatory costs are cheaper than those who don’t…ie better run clubs like Brighton have an additional competitive edge.

 

[Bozza]

I agree to a certain extent, but this comment puzzled me a bit:
View attachment 194709

Are we really using costs to fans, the academy and our commitment to the women’s game as a bargaining chip in this. I won’t be disingenuous because I don’t think this is what is meant, but to me, it comes across in a way that says: “We don’t want a regulator, but you do, so if you want it, you’ll have to pay for it.” I don’t particularly think with the money available in Men’s football the two options if we have to fund a regulator should be, cut the academy and women’s team or increase ticket prices. That’s very simple way of looking at it, as a football club I’d like to see us look at different ways to fund it that doesn’t involve punishing the fans, rather than this narrow approach. The FSA, all political parties and I’d say most fans, there has to be a more constructive option than those two options. I think his words on rail companies honouring tickets is good, but the way you get that sort of regulation is through a regulator, people want football at 3pm, it would be better the games not moved and that’s the choice of the league (which comes under a regulator).

Great minds and all that.

It all comes across like "look at all these worthy things we do - they're amazing. But if you want to do your thing, we'll do less of them - we'll simply have no choice. That's not our fault though, it will be yours. The blood will be on your hands."

In related news: won't someone think of the children?