Finance a striker

[Giraffe]

As a reminder of everything that's bad about NSC this thread has it all....

- Someone putting forward a suggestion and, because he has a 'history' being roundly abused by others who shoot down the proposal and won't even debate the issue and put forward any alternative suggestions.

- A new poster being 'put right' about the author by someone who can hardly be counted as a neutral.

- Ancient history being revived and used as conclusive evidence of an alternative agenda.

- People with agendas of their own joining in on whatever side suits their own aims.

Doesn't anybody think that, despite his past record, he's at least trying to put forward a suggestion to help the club? Instead we get terms like 'hijack' and 'utterly pointless timewasting'.

From my side, I would pay £225 if there are indeed another 220 or so people willing to do the same. However, I wouldn't buy tickets but pay it into a bank account - and only once all the names were signed-up. And yes, I would even allow BG to control it (subject to normal audit procedures) and use the money in line with his 'rules'. I dare say it won't happen and, even if it does, it will be too late - but I'd rather do something than sit around arguing why we shouldn't.

I agree. Seems odd that BG is being shouting at for suggesting this.

I'd pledge the money, although think sticking it in the bank is a better idea than buying the tickets, which just seems daft giving some of it in tax/VAT.

Mind you it does seem as though the club already have the money but just can't find the player. Which I find really very odd.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

My problem with BensGrandad is that I have a long memory. As, indeed, does he.

He wrote this, in Gull's Eye, when the Dick Knight consortium was first unveiled:-


"I attended the meeting of BISA on Monday evening in the hope that I would hear something constructive about the present situation but sadly left the meeting very disillusioned.

The 'meeting' and I use the term very loosely was chaired by a self confessed left winger who told Steve Gritt and Jeff Wood that the gathering was indicative of the true supporters of Brighton and the mood of those supporters. Wrong!! There were approximately 300 militant supporters present who were being led into making a decision that would lead to causing as much disruption as possible to all forms of authority ...

... Surely the aim must be to first and foremost ensure Brighton's survival and secondly to bring about changes so that the present situation cannot happen again in the future. Sadly I heard nothing that indicated any moves towards either but plenty towards bringing in Dick Knight.

Having listened to what was said by Dick Knight and the two representatives from McAlpines I am rather sceptical as to whether or not they are the Messiahs that their adoring fans present on Monday believe..."


Credit to him, though, for his consistency over the years.

 

[enigma]

Is Gulls Eye still going? I remember buying that a couple of times and thinking it was alright.

What other fanzines are there now? I must admit I never think to buy them but often enjoy them when I do read them.

 

[London Irish]

Hate to say it but I agree with London Irish and Lord Bracknell on this.There is money there to buy a forward but Bens Grandad is using this as a cheap shot to fire at Dick Knight

Thanks for that, and I'm going to appall you now with some of my fanatical left-wing ideology - financial discipline is the key to our future happiness and welfare!

What gets me about BG is not just the methods he constantly uses to campaign and "expose" Dick Knight as a man who cannot take this club forward, but especially one particular thing he does, which is his continual advocacy of breaching the club's budgets set at the beginning of the season and also breaching the club's wage structure that is put in place to safeguard the club from getting caught up in an inflationary spiral of overspending on wages.

BG's answer to everything is "break the wages structure, rip up the budgets".

A man of his long years and experience should realise the danger and folly of doing this. Making an exception on one occasion is the financial equivalent of the addict going back for one more hard drug hit - you get a temporary high when a high-salaried player comes in but what happens when the effect wears off, if said player doesn't turn the team around? Then you are tempted to go back for one more hit, spend more money chasing that temporary high, that temporary quick fix. Before you know it, a club that does that finds itself in serious debt with all the other players in uproar wanting more money if the wages structure is to be breached so often as to be meaningless.

It takes great courage and discipline to reject that irresponsible approach. A budget is set at the beginning of the year for a reason - to be stuck to. It is absolutely vital that the leadership of our club hold firm to rigid financial discipline given our appalling circumstances in bringing in such low revenues from Withdean.

We must do this even if it ultimately costs us our very precarious place in tier 2. A quick splurge of cash that blows a hole in our current budgets will not help us survive in tier 2 this year, the year after, the year after that, all those years until we finally get to Falmer - only laying the strong foundations of squad and team building within what we can afford can do that.

 

[vulture]

The club is in safe hands with Dick Knight and even though I want Mcghee to leave the club I would never question Mr Knight.Bens Grandad is full of bull shit about Dick Knight and a poll on here would have at least 95% of Nsc behind him.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Is Gulls Eye still going? I remember buying that a couple of times and thinking it was alright.

What other fanzines are there now? I must admit I never think to buy them but often enjoy them when I do read them.

i think richie made one

 

[London Irish]

Is Gulls Eye still going? I remember buying that a couple of times and thinking it was alright.

What other fanzines are there now? I must admit I never think to buy them but often enjoy them when I do read them.

I don't think there are any? Come over the Dyke, which was a good read, made it to 4 issues and the end of the season last year, but didn't reappear this season.

There was interesting articles in it, the final issue had one that had a look at all the new stadium attendance rises, and it worked out that the Albion were the 22nd best supported club in England since 1970, good indicator of our potential fan base.

The only fans publications now I think is the supporters club newsletter & almanac. Obviously not fanzine-like but staid, it is still well worth subscribing too - the last issue had some very interesting analysis of how Prescott's department had f***ed up some of the details/facts in the Falmer decision announcement and how these were likely to be seized on by the Nimbys in the forthcoming Lewes appeal

 

[Jim in the West]

What about the Forty Note Fund, though?

This was set up to fund players and nothing else - and is not controlled by the Club.

I hate to disagree with Lord B (so I won't), but I think I have a certain sympathy with BG's idea. It's kind of similar to the issue we all probably debate when we think about doing something environmentally friendly - eg, taking the bus instead of driving. We think about it for a few seconds, then say "sod it - what difference does it make if only I do it". BG may have thought about giving some more dosh to the Forty Notes fund - however, he'd feel a lot more likely to put circa £200 into the club if he knew that a couple of hundred others were going to do the same, so that it did actually make a difference.

Seagullsovergrimsby I think has hit the nail on the head - in order to get sufficient numbers of people interested, the scheme needs to have some real (and different) message - it needs to be able to be "sold". A scheme whereby various benefactors, large and small, could subsidise (say) 500 tickets at each of the last 5 home games might work - the tickets could be made available at (say) a fiver each, meaning the total cost of the subsidy would work out at about £44k. This would equate to 200 people donating about £220 each. The club would actually be £56k better off, as they'd receive the fivers from those who bought the tickets. One problem would be - who would qualify to be able to buy the tickets at a fiver? One idea would be for the club to do a mini "roadshow" in five different less well off areas of Brighton & Hove, with the tickets on sale at the roadshows.

I'm not normally awake at this time of night, so if the above reads like a load of garbage, it's because I should be in bed.....

 

[The Large One]

What about the Forty Note Fund, though?

This was set up to fund players and nothing else - and is not controlled by the Club.

100% correct. The Forty Notes Fund is still going, and anyone can donate anytime they see fit. It makes Bens Grandad's post all the more surprising because he knows that one of the co-signatories on the Forty Notes Fund is one of his collaborators from the mid-90s, former Councillor Mike Middleton.

If he wants to put in £225 into the fund, he is more than welcome to, and if another 220 people do, we've cracked it.

 

[BensGrandad]

My problem with BensGrandad is that I have a long memory. As, indeed, does he.

He wrote this, in Gull's Eye, when the Dick Knight consortium was first unveiled:-


"I attended the meeting of BISA on Monday evening in the hope that I would hear something constructive about the present situation but sadly left the meeting very disillusioned.

The 'meeting' and I use the term very loosely was chaired by a self confessed left winger who told Steve Gritt and Jeff Wood that the gathering was indicative of the true supporters of Brighton and the mood of those supporters. Wrong!! There were approximately 300 militant supporters present who were being led into making a decision that would lead to causing as much disruption as possible to all forms of authority ...

... Surely the aim must be to first and foremost ensure Brighton's survival and secondly to bring about changes so that the present situation cannot happen again in the future. Sadly I heard nothing that indicated any moves towards either but plenty towards bringing in Dick Knight.

Having listened to what was said by Dick Knight and the two representatives from McAlpines I am rather sceptical as to whether or not they are the Messiahs that their adoring fans present on Monday believe..."


Credit to him, though, for his consistency over the years.

Lord B you posted the above extract from Gulls Eye correctly but you fail to say is that at that meeting it was being suggested from the top table, at which DK was sat, if my memory serves me right because his actual words when I queried if he had the money to carry out his promises was, ' Whose this f.....g idiot'. Little wonder I do not like the man! The suggestion was made by the Chairman of the meeting that he would bring in the people who caused the trouble with the livestock problems at Shoreham Harbour and The Sun dispute at Wapping to cause similar disturbances at The Goldstone. That is the 300 I objected to.

That is all water under the bridge now although I still have certain reservations on Falmer but that is another issue for discussion at a later date.

My immediate concern is to stay in the CCC and my suggestion was made purely to do that and no ulterior motive to undermine DK or anybody else.

I was lead to believe that there was dissention amongst the ranks over the distribution of the 40 note fund in that the money was used for players but in the loosest sense of the word and
as a consequence I would not give any money to that fund. If my information about this is incorrect I apologise in advance but that is what I have acted upon.

To answer TLO and his assertion about a collaborator of mine Mike Middleton I do not know this man and to the best of my knowledge have never met him so like a lot that is posted on here about me it is a tall story that started at 1in high and is now 8ft.

Insider has aswered the post put on Ask The Club and in so doing insists that money isn't the problem so there is no need to go any further with my idea. To those who have supported my ideas and wishes I would say thank you it is good that some people can view things with an open mind and judge them on their merits or otherwise and not a prejudiced ' oh its BG lets knock him down'.

 

[Jim D]

The first meeting I attended was at the Concordia (the place by the pier). It was packed and there was a big sing-song before Paul Hayward stood up and said a few rousing words about why BHA was a great club and why we needed to get rid of Archer and Bellotti. After that Dick Knight told everyone how we would succeed if we stood together. He wasn't preaching violence but he certainly had a lot of angry people around him. He took several questions about what we could do and gave good replies about sticking together, continuing to let them know we wanted them out and protesting visibly against them. However, when he had a question about the finances instead of answering he led a chorus of 'Archer out'.

I left the meeting thinking that we could win our fight with BA and DB, but also a bit uneasy about the 'team' I was lending my support to. I do think that DK has done a great job since then and I wouldn't begrudge him recovering some of his money from Falmer. Also, I guess he aligned himself with the people that were prepared to both vocally and physically support him (or anyone?) in his bid to oust the Board. But my abiding thoughts about that meeting were that it wouldn't have been out of place in 1930's London or Berlin.

 

[bhaexpress]

Actually I passed A level maths in 1960 amongst my 7 passes. But time takes over the grey matter some times.

And to think they say exams are easier now.

 

[Yorkie]

And to think they say exams are easier now.

Do you know that A levels were restricted to 3 back in the 60's. It is possible that he took 7 O levels though.

 

[BensGrandad]

To help put the record straight I would like to point out that the extract that Lord B posted was from a letter that I wrote to Gulls Eye which was then produced by Ian Hart and Pete Kennard and concerned a meeting held at Southwick FC.

It had been suggested to me by people at the FA that there were serious concerns about his financial position which may go towards explaining why the club were required to place a £500k bond with the FA. Have you ever heard of anybody ghaving had to do that either before or since then when taking over a club.

I have said and will freely admit it that he has done a remarkable job during his time as Chairman and nobody can take that from him. Whether anybody else could have done as well or better or quicker is pure speculation a question that will never be answered and is based on personal belief.

During the late 50s and early 60s I was in the Army and as such there was no restriction on how many subjects that could be taken and based upon my school report before joining I was exempt Army Education Exams at all levels and took just GCE O level and A Level.

Perhaps it is age but I believe that generally the standard of advanced education and the top exam marks has improved since then but the basic use of what we called mental arithmetic ie the ability to add, multiply etc very quickly has not with the advent and continual use of calculators and itemised tills etc. Also in an effort to appease more, the exam system has made it appear that everybody passes at different given levels as opposed to the 60s when you either passed or failed.

I know that Ben is doing things in Maths that I didn't do until I was probably 2 or 3 years older than he is now.

 

[The Large One]

The first meeting I attended was at the Concordia (the place by the pier). It was packed and there was a big sing-song before Paul Hayward stood up and said a few rousing words about why BHA was a great club and why we needed to get rid of Archer and Bellotti. After that Dick Knight told everyone how we would succeed if we stood together. He wasn't preaching violence but he certainly had a lot of angry people around him. He took several questions about what we could do and gave good replies about sticking together, continuing to let them know we wanted them out and protesting visibly against them. However, when he had a question about the finances instead of answering he led a chorus of 'Archer out'.

I left the meeting thinking that we could win our fight with BA and DB, but also a bit uneasy about the 'team' I was lending my support to. I do think that DK has done a great job since then and I wouldn't begrudge him recovering some of his money from Falmer. Also, I guess he aligned himself with the people that were prepared to both vocally and physically support him (or anyone?) in his bid to oust the Board. But my abiding thoughts about that meeting were that it wouldn't have been out of place in 1930's London or Berlin.

At the time, it was probably deemed necessary. Thankfully, by sheer force of individual and collective peronsailty, it worked.

DK has never made a statement saying he will personally bankroll the club, he just isn't that wealthy. However, he was the only one at the time to actually put what money he had where his mouth was. He got together a consortium (or rather, Liam Brady got together a consortium), which at the time, probably didn't know how to get the club out of its mess. Archer was stlll in charge, and all the run-time required to re-build the club was spent trying to wrestle out of Archer's hands.

His most far-reaching statement at the time was probably, 'I promise you better times ahead...'

BG: If you have never met or known Mike Middleton, how come his name and yours are so often mentioned together? Also, since when did the FA scrutinise the personal accounts of an intended chairman, when they were quite happy to give Archer a free rein to try and wreck the club? Did they trust BA's integrity more because he had/has a vast personal fortune?

DK's personal wealth is not the CENTRAL issue here. The main issue is how tightly and prudently he has run the club, even if it has not been bankrolled with a fortune.

 

[Seagull73]

At the time, it was probably deemed necessary. Thankfully, by sheer force of individual and collective peronsailty, it worked.

DK has never made a statement saying he will personally bankroll the club, he just isn't that wealthy. However, he was the only one at the time to actually put what money he had where his mouth was. He got together a consortium (or rather, Liam Brady got together a consortium), which at the time, probably didn't know how to get the club out of its mess. Archer was stlll in charge, and all the run-time required to re-build the club was spent trying to wrestle out of Archer's hands.

His most far-reaching statement at the time was probably, 'I promise you better times ahead...'

BG: If you have never met or known Mike Middleton, how come his name and yours are so often mentioned together? Also, since when did the FA scrutinise the personal accounts of an intended chairman, when they were quite happy to give Archer a free rein to try and wreck the club? Did they trust BA's integrity more because he had/has a vast personal fortune?

DK's personal wealth is not the CENTRAL issue here. The main issue is how tightly and prudently he has run the club, even if it has not been bankrolled with a fortune.

And moreover, DK's intention was to build BHA back up again, for which he has done a sensational job.

My own concern about this is that DK goes very quiet when our backs are up against the wall, right at the time when we need him to be vocal in his support for the manager, for the team, for where we are heading.

We all know it's about Falmer, but he is letting the manager take an awful lot of flack at the moment, and that can't be fair.

 

[The Large One]

And moreover, DK's intention was to build BHA back up again, for which he has done a sensational job.

My own concern about this is that DK goes very quiet when our backs are up against the wall, right at the time when we need him to be vocal in his support for the manager, for the team, for where we are heading.

We all know it's about Falmer, but he is letting the manager take an awful lot of flack at the moment, and that can't be fair.

Conversely, I think Mark McGhee is big enough to handle any flack, fair or otherwise. He will ask DK for a public statemetnt if necessary. McGhee would feel insulted if Dick came out (ooer!) and said to the public 'Mark's doing a great job, everything's fine, he has my total support' etc. It only needs to be said privately.

If DK was to come out and say anything, it would be tell the snipers to belt up.

 

[3gulls]

If DK was to come out and say anything, it would be tell the snipers to belt up.

And they would probably tell him to f*** off...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Conversely, I think Mark McGhee is big enough to handle any flack, fair or otherwise. He will ask DK for a public statemetnt if necessary. McGhee would feel insulted if Dick came out (ooer!) and said to the public 'Mark's doing a great job, everything's fine, he has my total support' etc. It only needs to be said privately.

If DK was to come out and say anything, it would be tell the snipers to belt up.

Much how I am anti mcghee i agree, it would seem like the dreaded vote of confidence.

 

[BensGrandad]

BG: If you have never met or known Mike Middleton, how come his name and yours are so often mentioned together? Also, since when did the FA scrutinise the personal accounts of an intended chairman, when they were quite happy to give Archer a free rein to try and wreck the club? Did they trust BA's integrity more because he had/has a vast personal fortune?

.

I would be grateful if you could provide me with an example of Mike Middleton and myself being mentioned together.

I would suggest that the reason the FA looked into DK finances was because he was known to not have much money and we were asking for permission for him to buy the club and move away without a home ground due to BA etc. The FA probabaly thought that we wouldn't survive the time at Gillingham due to our situation and that of DKs money or rather lack of. For the same reason most other Chairmen refused to enter into an agreement to allow us to use their pitch and we had to return cap in hand to the mercy of Brighton Council and to Withdean.

To his eternal credit Dick Knight has overcome these problems and we are still in business. His next important stage is to keep us in this Division and follow that with getting Falmer built.

Finally I believe that it is common practice for the FA to carry out an investigation, to some degree, prior to allowing somebody to buy a club.