[Albion] Fab out?

[Reddleman]

I am firmly in the out camp. The key reasons:

- we can all see the lack of philosophy or tactical shape. Maybe we were spoiled under Potter and RDZ but it’s absolutely clear we don’t have a noticeable identity.

- we aren’t creating anywhere near as many chances as we used to. Yes we routinely missed chance after chance under Potter and RDZ but we were creating them. The Xg post above proves that conclusively.

- the development of young players is going backwards. In what world do we have Ferguson and Enciso out on loan meaning we are relying on the likes of Welbeck and Pedro staying fully fit. That he can’t get them to a level that they can contribute is on him.

- His behaviour, such as Saturday and not thanking fans, the spikey media interviews the cringe inducing motivational team talks. RDZ made player and fans want to run into fire for him. FH has none of that charisma.

- the team selections and substitutions. Too many times it’s head scratching and he has to make wholesale changes to chase a game. He then gets credit for that and maybe that’s fair but too often it’s because he got it wrong in the first place.

Finally I think he’s simply too young. At all points in our career we will have young managers at work but I just don’t see how some of our senior pros who have been managed by Klopp, Ferguson etc will look at him and think yes he’s the man.

 

[y2dave]

I am firmly in the out camp. The key reasons:

- we can all see the lack of philosophy or tactical shape. Maybe we were spoiled under Potter and RDZ but it’s absolutely clear we don’t have a noticeable identity.

- we aren’t creating anywhere near as many chances as we used to. Yes we routinely missed chance after chance under Potter and RDZ but we were creating them. The Xg post above proves that conclusively.

- the development of young players is going backwards. In what world do we have Ferguson and Enciso out on loan meaning we are relying on the likes of Welbeck and Pedro staying fully fit. That he can’t get them to a level that they can contribute is on him.

- His behaviour, such as Saturday and not thanking fans, the spikey media interviews the cringe inducing motivational team talks. RDZ made player and fans want to run into fire for him. FH has none of that charisma.

- the team selections and substitutions. To many teams it’s head scratching and he has to make wholesale changes to chase a game. He then gets credit for that and maybe that’s fair but too often it’s because he got it wrong in the first place.

Finally I think he’s simply too young. At all points in our career we will have young managers at work but I just don’t see how some of our senior pros who have been managed by Klopp, Ferguson etc will look at him and think yes he’s the man.

Agree with all of this. Tony & Paul will undoubtedly have an eye on the underlying data and I’d imagine PB at least has regular interactions with senior pro’s to get 360 feedback. I’d imagine there is a small chance he’s gone after the window closes as we didn’t want to screw up pending signings. However it does seem more likely they are giving him a chance to find solutions with a tighter squad and the new guy giving him guidance.

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

I am firmly in the out camp. The key reasons:

- we can all see the lack of philosophy or tactical shape. Maybe we were spoiled under Potter and RDZ but it’s absolutely clear we don’t have a noticeable identity.

- we aren’t creating anywhere near as many chances as we used to. Yes we routinely missed chance after chance under Potter and RDZ but we were creating them. The Xg post above proves that conclusively.

- the development of young players is going backwards. In what world do we have Ferguson and Enciso out on loan meaning we are relying on the likes of Welbeck and Pedro staying fully fit. That he can’t get them to a level that they can contribute is on him.

- His behaviour, such as Saturday and not thanking fans, the spikey media interviews the cringe inducing motivational team talks. RDZ made player and fans want to run into fire for him. FH has none of that charisma.

- the team selections and substitutions. Too many times it’s head scratching and he has to make wholesale changes to chase a game. He then gets credit for that and maybe that’s fair but too often it’s because he got it wrong in the first place.

Finally I think he’s simply too young. At all points in our career we will have young managers at work but I just don’t see how some of our senior pros who have been managed by Klopp, Ferguson etc will look at him and think yes he’s the man.

Lots of points to agree with here.
Would also add.. I've never seen Dunk look and sound so deflated, uninspired and unenthusiastic as he does right now. My teenage lad pointed this out on Saturday that he's just given the most downbeat pre-match presser ever. Maybe Southgate ruined him in the summer (?) and the clear waning of his peak powers must be a bit depressing (he's far from finished though IMO). But when our captain fantastic looks and sounds this way.. well all is not well behind closed doors one would presume.

 

[Robinjakarta]

Lots of points to agree with here.
Would also add.. I've never seen Dunk look and sound so deflated, uninspired and unenthusiastic as he does right now. My teenage lad pointed this out on Saturday that he's just given the most downbeat pre-match presser ever. Maybe Southgate ruined him in the summer (?) and the clear waning of his peak powers must be a bit depressing (he's far from finished though IMO). But when our captain fantastic looks and sounds this way.. well all is not well behind closed doors one would presume.

Post-match? He looked absolutely broken: eyes down nearly all the time, hardly looked at the interviewer never mind the camera and it was a painful watch even more so to me than the match. I felt really sorry for him. The whole thing implied something much bigger than just the Forest result.

 

[Taybha]

In,come on guys let's trust the process.

Meanwhile here's a training gif from the midfield coach.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

Post-match? He looked absolutely broken: eyes down nearly all the time, hardly looked at the interviewer never mind the camera and it was a painful watch even more so to me than the match. I felt really sorry for him. The whole thing implied something much bigger than just the Forest result.

TBH I'd expect our captain and centre-half to be like that after a 7-0 thumping. I don't see how it implies anything more than "we just let in seven goals, and I'm captain of this team and its key defender"

 

[Justice]

I am firmly in the out camp. The key reasons:

- we can all see the lack of philosophy or tactical shape. Maybe we were spoiled under Potter and RDZ but it’s absolutely clear we don’t have a noticeable identity.

- we aren’t creating anywhere near as many chances as we used to. Yes we routinely missed chance after chance under Potter and RDZ but we were creating them. The Xg post above proves that conclusively.

- the development of young players is going backwards. In what world do we have Ferguson and Enciso out on loan meaning we are relying on the likes of Welbeck and Pedro staying fully fit. That he can’t get them to a level that they can contribute is on him.

- His behaviour, such as Saturday and not thanking fans, the spikey media interviews the cringe inducing motivational team talks. RDZ made player and fans want to run into fire for him. FH has none of that charisma.

- the team selections and substitutions. Too many times it’s head scratching and he has to make wholesale changes to chase a game. He then gets credit for that and maybe that’s fair but too often it’s because he got it wrong in the first place.

Finally I think he’s simply too young. At all points in our career we will have young managers at work but I just don’t see how some of our senior pros who have been managed by Klopp, Ferguson etc will look at him and think yes he’s the man.

We weren’t spoilt Potter still has a way to go DeZerbi is a top manager results are everything in football and he consistently achieves them.

 

[Klaas]

Post-match? He looked absolutely broken: eyes down nearly all the time, hardly looked at the interviewer never mind the camera and it was a painful watch even more so to me than the match. I felt really sorry for him. The whole thing implied something much bigger than just the Forest result.

We'd just been beaten 7-0 ffs

 

[Biscuit]

I don’t see us winning any of these fixtures tbh

Lose the next three, which isn't outside the realms of possibility and he's gone, surely.

Niedzkowski and Crofts to manage the season out and we appoint McKenna after Ipswich are relegated.

Fabian Hürzeler goes on to be a brilliant... answer on Pointless.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I know many roll their eyes at Xg, but I looked because my impression is that we don't have the control of games that we've become used to over the last few seasons. Teams seem happy to let us have possession in areas that are not threatening, assured that they can get into shape and defend against our slow build up.

Across the season so far, our Xg measured against our Xga is now in the minus column. Totalled from games up until the end of November it was +1.18, but since then -3.95. Totalling -2.77 across the season so far. We haven't had a negative in this column over a season since 2019/20.

Now Saturday's disaster is a major factor in this calculation. We were still just in the positive until that disgraceful collapse, but we are making less chances and conceding more chances. The drop off at the end of last season left us +0.97 for the term, after RDZ's previous +27.57 and Potter's +2.36 and +13.91. The chances created has been up and down over that period, but the chances given to the opposition has been steadily on the rise from 39.91 to 47.21 to 50.15 to 60.94. If you extrapolate our current position across 38 games it would be 61.39 for this year.

Actual goals conceded has also been on a season to season rise, from the mid 40s under Potter to the 50s and then 60s under RDZ. We're on target for the 60s again this season. We have become much easier to score against. Something that seemed a pay off of risk and reward when RDZ's bait and switch was scoring us loads too, but we've now hit the point where, as Saturday underlined, the attack is slow and laboured and the defence is committed too high as a result of this.

We seem very seldom to be playing in space in the opposition's half and our opponents always seem to have acres of it in ours. We've invested in loads of quick wingers presumably to run into space, but our wingers seemingly always have a defensive barrier to run through. We seem to have bought the players to play more Klopp, less Pep, but we haven't made the tactical change to exploit these talents. Nobody falls for the counter press lure any more and our response seems to be to try to get the overloads by committing more and more players forward. This doesn't work often because however may of us there are up there, playing in crowded spaces is very difficult.

I can't offer any easy solution to this quandary, but it's notable that, when Hurzeler arrived, it was with the knowledge from his time at St Pauli that defensively he liked a high press, that would quickly drop into a low block if possession was not won back straight away. We don't seem to have seen very much of the latter part of this approach and it could very well be that it's more difficult to do against EPL teams that have the midfielders who can find the small spaces to move the ball quicker in transition. However, it could also be that our players are simply not getting back quickly enough.

There was a point on Saturday where Welbeck had the chance of a quick break, but it quickly fizzled out and it was notable how many of Forest's players made the effort to get back and defend. We don't seem to be doing the same. We've lost players like Burn, Lallana, Mac Allister who set examples and insisted on standards from their colleagues. Milner is a similar sort of character, but hasn't been on the pitch to do it. It seems that we are a bit like Chelsea of the last couple of years, too many young stars and not enough leaders and grafters. I don't know if Hurzeler is the problem, or whether he will resolve it given time. I just know that we've been spoiled being extrordinary for a few seasons and it's very frustrating watching us look ordinary.

Excuse the rambling. Saturday hurt us all and, though reactionary decisions are likely to be wrong ones, it's obvious that something neeeds to change, but not at all obvious what.

Just to add my appreciation to this post

Brilliant analysis.

 

[dwayne]

Lose the next three, which isn't outside the realms of possibility and he's gone, surely.

Niedzkowski and Crofts to manage the season out and we appoint McKenna after Ipswich are relegated.

Fabian Hürzeler goes on to be a brilliant... answer on Pointless.

Dunno why people keep going on about the next 3. Southampton yes. Chelsea (X2)is almost a free hit, in recent history they always beat us.

Southampton is big though because after that we have some horrific fixtures. On fire Bmuff who are clearly better than us. Fulham who we always lose to. City away , villa , palace.

I don't envy fabby boy.

 

[Biscuit]

Dunno why people keep going on about the next 3. Southampton yes. Chelsea (X2)is almost a free hit, in recent history they always beat us.

Southampton is big though because after that we have some horrific fixtures. On fire Bmuff who are clearly better than us. Fulham who we always lose to. City away , villa , palace.

I don't envy fabby boy.

Why would you consider Chelsea (x2) a free hit?

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Why would you consider Chelsea (x2) a free hit?

I think he means as in we expect to lose so anything we get is a bonus

 

[Springal]

Why would you consider Chelsea (x2) a free hit?

Roberto lost 3 times to Chelsea last season, expect Fab also will I guess

 

[Justice]

Lose the next three, which isn't outside the realms of possibility and he's gone, surely.

Niedzkowski and Crofts to manage the season out and we appoint McKenna after Ipswich are relegated.

Fabian Hürzeler goes on to be a brilliant... answer on Pointless.

Has this Niedzkowski chap ever managed at a decent level, Or is he only like a FIFA badge coach?

 

[rebel51]

Bring in Rob Edwards and his right hand man trollope, would be a great appointment after the clown gets the chop.

 

[Springal]

Bring in Rob Edwards and his right hand man trollope, would be a great appointment after the clown gets the chop.

 

[Hiheidi]

Has this Niedzkowski chap ever managed at a decent level, Or is he only like a FIFA badge coach?

 

[Justice]

View attachment 196157

Now I see why he’s in the door, Bloom admitted he should’ve hired him instead of Hypia.
You can almost guarantee if FH leaves the building he will be the next head coach.

 

[Driver8]

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