Extremism - both sides

[drew]

I work with a young lad in his early twenties who is quite forceful in his condemnation of the EU, any centre or left leaning politicians, LGBT people or their beliefs. He knows I am sort of centre/ left on most things and tend to head in the tolerance and understanding section in most discussions that we have.

He has sometimes said things that I find deeply offensive but I have merely said that " maybe you should rethink what you have just said ? ". He wanted to " Smash Corbyn's face in " on the basis that he is the leader of the Labour party, not because of any policies or statements by Corbyn, merely the fact that he exists. He has told me on many occasions of his strong held beliefs as a Creationist Christian which colours his LGBT views on same sex marriage and relationships yet freely admits that he and his, strongly Christian fiancé, go abroad for holidays and book rooms with twin beds yet immediately push them together for the week while they bonk like crazy.

He even says that if Jesus were alive today he would probably have more in common with the aims of the Labour Party than any other. I really struggle sometimes to even talk to him when he goes in to some rant about something in the news. Sometimes it seems he is The Daily Mail made human, however, he is still young and I'd like to think that slowly but surely I am moderating his extremity bit by bit. he even played the classic old pre election card " If Jeremy Corbyn wins I'm emigrating !" I merely said, " If you could emigrate what the bloody hell are you still doing here anyway ?"

He is work in progress and I like to think he will change, at least a little, but blanking him and not challenging his opinions is the worst possible option.

All the time he is a creationist then he's got no hope at all!!!!!

 

[drew]

One of my employees said he'd voted Labour in the last election because he had student debt. When I asked him if there were any other reasons he said 'No'. I asked him how much he knew about the policies and aims of the other parties, he said 'nothing'. I asked him if he knew anything about Corbyn and his aims for the future... he said 'no'.

So, he voted Labour because they said they'd scrap student fees. That's it.

Another of my employees voted for Brexit. I asked why - he said 'cos I'm sick of these foreigners taking our jobs'. I explained he already had a job, and had he considered the wider implications of Brexit. He looked at me, in his Baldrick fashion, and said 'No - I don't know what they are'. He was in charge of sweeping the warehouse and packing the post by the way.

What we appear to have is a youth which has the power to vote, and doesn't use the power to think. Extremism seems to be for people who can't be arsed seeing everyone's point of view. It's too hard, so they can't be bothered.

Politics is a career, on the whole. Most of them will tell you the sky is dark brown if it can get them to where they want to be - they just want you to vote them in. Then, the promises can be renaged on. It's too late by then - you've already put the cross in the box and they've moved into their lovely new office. I don't trust any of them...

In essence though, far left views can't be paid for and appeal to the thick and lazy. Far right views treat people like crap and appeal to those looking to protect their wealth. I think Human nature and a spoonful of life experience makes people lean to the right as they look to protect what they've spent a lifetime accumulating for retirement - and the exuberance of youth makes younger people want what they haven't yet got - as soon as possible, hence the lean to the left.

I know I'm right.

You may be being a bit harsh on the youth as there are plenty through all age groups who haven't really got a clue why they vote for what they do or the implications of doing so, whichever way they vote!

 

[beorhthelm]

One of my employees said he'd voted Labour in the last election because he had student debt. When I asked him if there were any other reasons he said 'No'. I asked him how much he knew about the policies and aims of the other parties, he said 'nothing'. I asked him if he knew anything about Corbyn and his aims for the future... he said 'no'.

So, he voted Labour because they said they'd scrap student fees. That's it.

Another of my employees voted for Brexit. I asked why - he said 'cos I'm sick of these foreigners taking our jobs'. I explained he already had a job, and had he considered the wider implications of Brexit. He looked at me, in his Baldrick fashion, and said 'No - I don't know what they are'. He was in charge of sweeping the warehouse and packing the post by the way.

What we appear to have is a youth which has the power to vote, and doesn't use the power to think. Extremism seems to be for people who can't be arsed seeing everyone's point of view. It's too hard, so they can't be bothered.

to be fair, at least they both thought somthing about it, there's a large proportion of the population who simply tick a colour because their upbringing says to. and at least they voted.

 

[drew]

This guy has done some research on peoples voting habits and found that people are likely to vote due to there personality and the reason people become more conservative as they age is that they gain more Conscientiousness. Which ties in with your statement. He has a lot of interesting stuff on youtube here's one you might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3gOoOSdhY

I think the phrase 'no shit sherlock' springs to mind. Of course people vote due to their personality!!

 

[drew]

And "right extremism" gave us capitalism and you can thank it for being able to have that computer and phone that you use to post onto NSC.

Really? Care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion? Not sure you can argue that it is right 'extremism' that gave us capitalism. Surely Capitalism is all about maximizing profit and has nothing to do with the extreme right.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I once got told by a 20 something that I'd f'cked up HIS life because I voted Brexit, like older people don't actually matter.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And they always meet somewhere in the middle? Their ideology doesn't really differ?

They don't meet in the middle any more than birth and death, or fire and ice meet in the middle. Ludicrous.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

They don't meet in the middle any more than birth and death, or fire and ice meet in the middle. Ludicrous.

Again, as before, thanks for your explanation. I am thinking the 'ludicrous' is the the totalitarian state they both devise, the murder of thousands/millions because they disagree with views, is ludicrous, the corruption at the top, whereby the main lot get the biggest piece of the pie whilst the peasants starve is just silly and Nazi's and/or commies don't do this? The oppression of the millions doesn't happen on both sides either, secret police, nah not that either. I guess the ideologies never meet really. Religion suppressed, freedom of mind, freedom and expression are not particularly endorsed. Nope, all very different.

 

[Buzzer]

Really? Care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion? Not sure you can argue that it is right 'extremism' that gave us capitalism. Surely Capitalism is all about maximizing profit and has nothing to do with the extreme right.

It was tongue in cheek.

I wouldn't describe many of those that fought for universal suffrage as being of the "extreme left". If any single group can lay claim to having been pivotal in this in the US, UK and NZ (Who were the first to extend voting rights) then it would be the Quaker movement. Likewise, it takes a lot of brassneck to claim that it was thanks largely to the "extreme left" that we get days off from work. So if that's extreme left then why can't the extreme right lay a similar claim to something vaguely associated with the right?

 

[Blue3]

Extremist views of what ever kind must be challenged not to do so can only lead to the breakdown of the society

Martin Niemöller quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[looney]

What I don't get then, and I know it's generalising, hugely, why are right wingers usually 40 somethings and left wingers usually 20 something? Am I wrong? I could be...

Easy to be idealistic with other peoples money.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Easy to be idealistic with other peoples money.

Are you referring to youngsters or oldsters? Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

 

[beorhthelm]

Again, as before, thanks for your explanation. I am thinking the 'ludicrous' is the the totalitarian state they both devise, the murder of thousands/millions because they disagree with views, is ludicrous, the corruption at the top, whereby the main lot get the biggest piece of the pie whilst the peasants starve is just silly and Nazi's and/or commies don't do this? The oppression of the millions doesn't happen on both sides either, secret police, nah not that either. I guess the ideologies never meet really. Religion suppressed, freedom of mind, freedom and expression are not particularly endorsed. Nope, all very different.

you're falling in the trap of confusing left/right with authoritian/libertarian. both Hitler and Stalin were hard authoritarians, despite having considerably different views on the best economic approach (which is broadly the left/right axis). though even then its not that simplistic. have a look at Political Compass to get an idea, also politcal triangle for another take. consider how China has changed economically despite retaining the same poltical structure for 70 years.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

you're falling in the trap of confusing left/right with authoritian/libertarian. both Hitler and Stalin were hard authoritarians, despite having considerably different views on the best economic approach (which is broadly the left/right axis). though even then its not that simplistic. have a look at Political Compass to get an idea, also politcal triangle for another take. consider how China has changed economically despite retaining the same poltical structure for 70 years.

I'm not a politician, I have no idea about ideology, but please tell me Hitler and Stalin ran different regimes. I accept your China explanation.

 

[vegster]

All the time he is a creationist then he's got no hope at all!!!!!

I still have hope, time is a great healer.

 

[knocky1]

Screw the left and right.

Embrace individualism.

If you change your mind, that will be self abuse. Perversely that is where you presently are.

 

[drew]

It was tongue in cheek.

I wouldn't describe many of those that fought for universal suffrage as being of the "extreme left". If any single group can lay claim to having been pivotal in this in the US, UK and NZ (Who were the first to extend voting rights) then it would be the Quaker movement. Likewise, it takes a lot of brassneck to claim that it was thanks largely to the "extreme left" that we get days off from work. So if that's extreme left then why can't the extreme right lay a similar claim to something vaguely associated with the right?

Apologies, I couldn't see your puffed out cheek from here!!

Who has actually claimed it was the 'extreme' left that won workers rights rather than just those left of centre? There is a political spectrum. Vast majority are either just to the right or just to the left of centre. Those at either extreme are almost certainly in a very small minority.

 

[drew]

I still have hope, time is a great healer.

Depends how you measure time! If you are basing on the universe being about 13.7b years and earth about 4.5b then fine, but if it is based on a the fact that the earth is only 6000 years old then good luck!!!!

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Vast majority are either just to the right or just to the left of centre. Those at either extreme are almost certainly in a very small minority.

Indeed and I agree with your sentiments entirely, so why do 20k (left and right) of extremists grab headlines? Why don't us 'normal' people go out there and grab our streets back? Would we be extreme centre?

 

[Mackenzie]

Indeed and I agree with your sentiments entirely, so why do 20k (left and right) of extremists grab headlines? Why don't us 'normal' people go out there and grab our streets back? Would we be extreme centre?

We're not newsworthy.