[Politics] Extinction Rebellion protester grounds plane at London City...

[Horses Arse]

Haha, are you for real?

What a hypocrite that you are worried about the climate but fecking it up on a business jolly.

They have a lovely lot of plastic tents too I noticed, they are just a bunch of activists that love being wa**ers as they are smacked out of their paranoid heads on drugs.

And another! Plastic tents! Brilliant! "If they were using canvas I'd be right behind them!"

Bloody hell, what a great thread this is

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[Mr Putdown]

Livestock production is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than the whole of the transportation sector.

Not true for Europe



Nor the USA

 

[Machiavelli]

But if your goal is to reduce emissions, do you see how vocalising your distain might not be the way to get that done?

We need more people need to vote for green policies. And they're not going to do that if they're being belittled. It gives them an excuse, "I'm not going to vote for those people who insulted me". And some people are looking for an excuse. Don't give them it.

The planet is not going to be saved by abusing individuals, one by one, who are not at your own current standard of green-ness.

Good point, although I'd be grateful if you could add what you propose should be done.
[MENTION=1721]Mr Putdown[/MENTION] has a valid position in my view in appreciating the urgency of the situation and the feet-dragging that has been ongoing for decades now. We're still churning out increased levels of carbon emissions (and note they have a delayed reaction in temperature rises). Since XR, Greta and the school strikes, three things have happened: our government has made a commitment to zero carbon by 2050; polling on the urgency of tackling CC has increased and the issue's profile has raised in the public's mind; and the Green New Deal has risen substantially in prominence as a comprehensive solution to our current zombified predicament.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

globally all agriculture is around 10% emissions while energy is ~46%. in the UK agriculture is 8%, with energy is 25% and transportation ~20%. i wonder how they contort their data or assumptions to arrive at the conclusion?

Where have you got that data from? Certainly doesn't correlate with the most recent, and most comprehensive study to date re food and the environment. - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987

Animal agriculture's impact in the environment goes way beyond emissions. In reality;

- Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation - http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

- Livestock is responsible for 65% of all human-related emissions of nitrous oxide – a greenhouse gas with 296 times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide, and which stays in the atmosphere for 150 years.- http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

- Emissions for agriculture projected to increase 80% by 2050.- Tilman, David & Clark, Michael. "Global diets link environmental sustainability and human health". Nature. Vol. 515. 27 November 2014

- 2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of beef. - http://www.earthsave.org/environment/water.htm

- 1,000 gallons of water are required to produce 1 gallon of milk.- https://waterfootprint.org/media/downloads/Hoekstra-2008-WaterfootprintFood.pdf

- Animal Agriculture is responsible for 20%-33% of all fresh water consumption in the world today. - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212371713000024

- Livestock or livestock feed occupies 1/3 of the earth’s ice-free land. - http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/News/2006/1000448/index.html

- Animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction, ocean dead zones, water pollution, and habitat destruction. - https://comfortablyunaware.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/biodiversity-and-food-choice-a-clarification/ , http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

-Animal agriculture is responsible for up to 91% of Amazon destruction.- http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/758171468768828889/pdf/277150PAPER0wbwp0no1022.pdf

 

[portslade seagull]

He is spot on there.

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I wonder if he drives a car uses electricy and gas etc etc

 

[beorhthelm]

Where have you got that data from?

the UK numbers from Climate Change Commission, global was from ourworldindata.org. if it doesnt correlate, thats the point im making.

question, if global transport emissions are less than all agriculture, does that mean i dont have to worry about fuel economy or electric vehicles, if i just stop eating poultry amount of meat?

 

[BadFish]

I wonder if he drives a car uses electricy and gas etc etc

That is the part he is spot on about.

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[midnight_rendezvous]

the UK numbers from Climate Change Commission, global was from ourworldindata.org. if it doesnt correlate, thats the point im making.

question, if global transport emissions are less than all agriculture, does that mean i dont have to worry about fuel economy or electric vehicles, if i just stop eating poultry amount of meat?

Even if the number of emissions is somewhere in the middle of the 10% you quoted and the 18% I quoted, animal agriculture has a much wider impact on the environment, as I alluded to in my post, which is why it has been suggested that a plant based diet is the single most effective thing a person can do to reduce their environmental impact. If the world reduced it's meat consumption by 15% it would have the same impact on greenhouse gas emissions as taking 240 million cars off the road each year.

 

[beorhthelm]

Even if the number of emissions is somewhere in the middle of the 10% you quoted and the 18% I quoted, animal agriculture has a much wider impact on the environment,

what is the impact on non-animal agriculture, why are agriculture numbers taken as 100% meat? and I note shift from CO2e to total environmental impact, while conflating the numbers.

( interesting aside, google ads is pitching me coaches to Gatwick and Audi R8 4.2 on this page. )

 

[nicko31]

So everyone who works hard and saves all year to go away on holiday abroad with their family is, according to you, a c*nt then ?

Riiiight-o.

That's OTT

Though, if you take a business class seat, I'm afraid you are one and don't give a sh1t...

 

[Guinness Boy]

Where have you got that data from? Certainly doesn't correlate with the most recent, and most comprehensive study to date re food and the environment. - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987

Animal agriculture's impact in the environment goes way beyond emissions. In reality;

- Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation - http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

- Livestock is responsible for 65% of all human-related emissions of nitrous oxide – a greenhouse gas with 296 times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide, and which stays in the atmosphere for 150 years.- http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

- Emissions for agriculture projected to increase 80% by 2050.- Tilman, David & Clark, Michael. "Global diets link environmental sustainability and human health". Nature. Vol. 515. 27 November 2014

- 2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of beef. - http://www.earthsave.org/environment/water.htm

- 1,000 gallons of water are required to produce 1 gallon of milk.- https://waterfootprint.org/media/downloads/Hoekstra-2008-WaterfootprintFood.pdf

- Animal Agriculture is responsible for 20%-33% of all fresh water consumption in the world today. - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212371713000024

- Livestock or livestock feed occupies 1/3 of the earth’s ice-free land. - http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/News/2006/1000448/index.html

- Animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction, ocean dead zones, water pollution, and habitat destruction. - https://comfortablyunaware.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/biodiversity-and-food-choice-a-clarification/ , http://www.fao.org/3/a0701e/a0701e00.htm

-Animal agriculture is responsible for up to 91% of Amazon destruction.- http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/758171468768828889/pdf/277150PAPER0wbwp0no1022.pdf

Friends of the Earth estimate Samsung's water footprint for smart phone production at 1,200 billion litres with Apple not far behind.

https://friendsoftheearth.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/mind-your-step-report-76803.pdf

And yet how do you think Extinction Rebellion are organised?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

what is the impact on non-animal agriculture, why are agriculture numbers taken as 100% meat? and I note shift from CO2e to total environmental impact, while conflating the numbers.

( interesting aside, google ads is pitching me coaches to Gatwick and Audi R8 4.2 on this page. )

Because CO2 emissions aren't the be all and end all of greenhouse gasses (I wonder if that's where your original % came from - looking purely at CO2 emissions). The 'shift' is to impress upon you and others that, the impact of animal agriculture, which isn't just meat it is dairy too, goes beyond that of just the CO2 emissions. If you don't take into account water consumption, occupied land mass, water pollution, waste, deforestation and dead zones you aren't getting the whole picture of what eating meat does to the planet.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Friends of the Earth estimate Samsung's water footprint for smart phone production at 1,200 billion litres with Apple not far behind.

https://friendsoftheearth.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/mind-your-step-report-76803.pdf

And yet how do you think Extinction Rebellion are organised?

 

[beorhthelm]

Because CO2 emissions aren't the be all and end all of greenhouse gasses (I wonder if that's where your original % came from - looking purely at CO2 emissions). The 'shift' is to impress upon you and others that, the impact of animal agriculture, which isn't just meat it is dairy too, goes beyond that of just the CO2 emissions. If you don't take into account water consumption, occupied land mass, water pollution, waste, deforestation and dead zones you aren't getting the whole picture of what eating meat does to the planet.

the numbers were CO2 equivalent as far a i know (they usually are). its good really, i'll accept your argument and go meat free once a week, offsetting my car and train travel.

 

[Guinness Boy]

View attachment 116066

Really? That old meme again? I've lost count of the number of times I've seen it recently yet it doesn't answer the point at all. What if there are meat eaters out there who also take public transport or cycle, have solar panels and don't renew their tech every five minutes? It's pretty clear you've got an agenda but turning the whole world vegan is neither possible nor a panacea.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Really? That old meme again? I've lost count of the number of times I've seen it recently yet it doesn't answer the point at all. What if there are meat eaters out there who also take public transport or cycle, have solar panels and don't renew their tech every five minutes? It's pretty clear you've got an agenda but turning the whole world vegan is neither possible nor a panacea.

The meme that pokes fun at the idea that to criticise society you can't actively participate in it? Yeah, I thought it was an apt response to your criticism that XR member use phones (how dare they!). There are probably meat eaters in XR too My agenda? The only agenda I have is to discuss XR and climate change. I can't make you, or anyone else on this board, vegan. I can make you aware of the environmental impact animal agriculture has on the planet, I can also make you aware of the studies that suggest adopting a plant based diet is viewed as the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your impact on the environment. What you do with that information is up to you

 

[Guinness Boy]

The meme that pokes fun at the idea that to criticise society you can't actively participate in it? Yeah, I thought it was an apt response to your criticism that XR member use phones (how dare they!). There are probably meat eaters in XR too My agenda? The only agenda I have is to discuss XR and climate change. I can't make you, or anyone else on this board, vegan. I can make you aware of the environmental impact animal agriculture has on the planet, I can also make you aware of the studies that suggest adopting a plant based diet is viewed as the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your impact on the environment. What you do with that information is up to you

Yet your response to being made aware of the impact one just two companies in the tech sector is to jump straight on to the internet and post a meme a 12 year old could have found - one that suggests that anyone pointing out the hypocrisy of some climate protesters is a bit stupid. I hate to use the "B" word but if Brexit taught us anything it should be that faux intellectual superiority doesn't go down well with the masses. If you want people to be aware of your message you're going to have to do better than a cartoon.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Yet your response to being made aware of the impact one just two companies in the tech sector is to jump straight on to the internet and post a meme a 12 year old could have found - one that suggests that anyone pointing out the hypocrisy of some climate protesters is a bit stupid. I hate to use the "B" word but if Brexit taught us anything it should be that faux intellectual superiority doesn't go down well with the masses. If you want people to be aware of your message you're going to have to do better than a cartoon.

My response was to your criticism of XR. If you hadn't have added that little dig at the end I would have responded directly to the issue. Your goal was more to point out perceived hypocrisy than to raise awareness of the impact both Apple and Samsung have on water consumption. So I responded with a meme showing how utterly ridiculous the notion is that in order to want change in society you can't actively participate in it. I could get on my vegan high horse and say that if they aren't vegan they aren't environmentalists but I'm not an ******** and I recognise that doing something is better than doing nothing.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

And another! Plastic tents! Brilliant! "If they were using canvas I'd be right behind them!"

Bloody hell, what a great thread this is

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Good morning Mr Eco, exactly what have you taken today.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Because CO2 emissions aren't the be all and end all of greenhouse gasses (I wonder if that's where your original % came from - looking purely at CO2 emissions). The 'shift' is to impress upon you and others that, the impact of animal agriculture, which isn't just meat it is dairy too, goes beyond that of just the CO2 emissions. If you don't take into account water consumption, occupied land mass, water pollution, waste, deforestation and dead zones you aren't getting the whole picture of what eating meat does to the planet.

If, on top of greenhouse gas emissions, you take into account water consumption, occupied land mass, water pollution, waste, deforestation and dead zones, then why isn’t rice production getting a similar bad press?