Europe: In or Out

[sparkie]

Seems like Cameron will be coming back with no deal and totally humiliated ?

 

[nicko31]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

 

[Deleted member 22389]

This financial benefit from migrants narrative is tiresome because it's patently not true. If immigratation equals wealth then why does the most capitalist country in the world, which was built on immigratation has strict immigration controls? Once anyone can just go there and work then you (and others who make the same point) may have a point.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html

Plus, recent studies show that to be a net taxpayer to the Govt you need to be earning circa £40k, and this is well beyond the vast majority of immigrants arriving here from poorer countries.

I agree. We keep being told migrants pay more in than they take out, well if that was true then Cameron wouldn't be trying to stop child benefits, the extra 5-6 million people we have in this country would be paying enough in to the system and we wouldn't be seeing cuts to our NHS, complaints about lack of school places and so on. £20.00 per month Child Benefit in the UK, £3.20 a month Child Benefit in Romania, says it all.

 

[sparkie]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

Perhaps we could become the 51st state of the USA ?

 

[Hamilton]

If migration was truly working then the government wouldn't be trying to cut benefits, the extra 5-6 million people or so would be paying enough in to the system and we wouldn't be seeing cuts to our NHS, complaints about lack of school places and so on.

That's not true though is it. The cuts to benefits is part of a wide ranging cuts to benefits targeted in the main at the wider British public. The immigration argument has deflected the public attention from the Tory dogma of cutting from the bottom up to protect the economy.

ONS data continues to show that EU immigrants continue to - in the main - pay taxes.

 

[nicko31]

Perhaps we could become the 51st state of the USA ?

No that's Australia

 

[Soulman]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

I will get my violin.

 

[Soulman]

I agree. We keep being told migrants pay more in than they take out, well if that was true then Cameron wouldn't be trying to stop child benefits, the extra 5-6 million people we have in this country would be paying enough in to the system and we wouldn't be seeing cuts to our NHS, complaints about lack of school places and so on. £20.00 per month Child Benefit in the UK, £3.20 a month Child Benefit in Romania, says it all.

I work/have worked alongside many Eastern Europeans over the last 13 years. In most cases one weeks wage here is about a month in their country, the Child benefit is as you say. Most, especially the ones that had family, had two/three children and so the £60 a month CB sent back from here was a lot of money to them.
The best part for them was working here for a year, then going back and they were entitled to a FULL tax rebate....they would then receive OUR dole money (which equaled a lot more than their weekly pay in their country) for 3 months.....then come back over and do the same again.

 

[melias shoes]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

You really think this will happen do you?

 

[5mins-from-amex]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

'Right wing rags'
'Break the union'
'Xenophobia'
'final nail in our influence'
'Little England'
'many will be dead'

Well done for managing to fit all these great soundbites into 3 tiny paragraphs... Chip on your shoulder? Or are you just a

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

£20.00 per month Child Benefit in the UK, £3.20 a month Child Benefit in Romania, says it all.

Child benefit is £20.70 A WEEK in the UK (for the first child) and then £13.70 A WEEK for any subsequent children.

 

[Soulman]

Child benefit is £20.70 A WEEK in the UK (for the first child) and then £13.70 A WEEK for any subsequent children.

Yes you are correct, which makes the child benefit sent to the families from here to Eastern European countries often equivalent to about a third or slightly more of their monthly wage that is earned there. Roughly equivalent to about £450-500 a month here if the comparison was made on the basis of 3 children.

 

[cunning fergus]

This is just all politics and its will make little real difference. The right wing rags will says we've been conned by Europe whatever Cameron gets

Leaving is a huge risk on so many fronts, what's more it will break the union too. The Euro sceptics are too wrapped up in Xenophobia and just haven't really thought it through, many will be dead by the time the full effects are felt.

If we do go it really will be the final nail in our influence on this planet. Little England all alone stuck out in the mid-atlantic..

Posts like this are symptomatic of why these debates descend to childish name-calling and trading insults.

Now wait for it…………………there are profoundly LEFT WING political reasons for leaving the EU.

http://tuaeu.co.uk/?page_id=727

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/17/eu-is-now-a-profoundly-anti-democratic-institution

If you could only open your mind to the debate you will note there are right and left wing reasons for staying in as well.

The irony is with this that you are a mirror image of the swivel eyed bigoted euro sceptic lickspittle you so despise……………………now look what you made me do!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Cameron's been traipsing round Europe trying to get limited concessions on EU citizens claiming benefits after capitulating on real immigration restrictions while another EU country takes unilateral action to regain some control on who is allowed in.

Migrant crisis: Austria asylum cap begins despite EU anger

Austria's daily cap on the number of migrants and refugees allowed into the country has come into force.

The EU's migration commissioner, Dimitris Avramopoulos, has written to Austria's interior minister, saying the cap is plainly incompatible with Austria's obligations under EU and international law.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker criticised the Austrian move, remarking that "solo national approaches were not recommended".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35609823

I know the migrant issue is somewhat different from EU citizens free movement but it shows at least some EU leaders are prepared to put their countries interest before treaty obligations that are not fit for purpose. If it's good enough for the Austrians ....

 

[The Clamp]

We should be in an EU. We shouldn't be in this version of an EU. It's a gravy train and it allows too many criminal and unemplyed immigrants into the country. Sending child benefit back to their country of origin? What kind of blinkered fool would ever believe that to be a good idea?

 

[5ways]

This financial benefit from migrants narrative is tiresome because it's patently not true. If immigratation equals wealth then why does the most capitalist country in the world, which was built on immigratation has strict immigration controls? Once anyone can just go there and work then you (and others who make the same point) may have a point.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html

Plus, recent studies show that to be a net taxpayer to the Govt you need to be earning circa £40k, and this is well beyond the vast majority of immigrants arriving here from poorer countries.

No one, least of all me, is suggesting a free-for-all. The data in the article I linked showed that all migrant groups contribute positively to British coffers. I think it is probably by, say, French hedge fund managers who have fled French taxes but on the whole the overall balance on British exchequer appears to be positive.

 

[5ways]

We should be in an EU. We shouldn't be in this version of an EU. It's a gravy train and it allows too many criminal and unemplyed immigrants into the country. Sending child benefit back to their country of origin? What kind of blinkered fool would ever believe that to be a good idea?

On child benefit I'm not saying it's not an issue, or it shouldn't change. But it seems to be blown out of proportion as a wedge issue.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The asks are small (to be honest almost not worth asking for) and the fuss that's being made highlights that this is an institution that is toooo cumbersome

 

[5ways]

Posts like this are symptomatic of why these debates descend to childish name-calling and trading insults.

Now wait for it…………………there are profoundly LEFT WING political reasons for leaving the EU.

http://tuaeu.co.uk/?page_id=727

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/17/eu-is-now-a-profoundly-anti-democratic-institution

If you could only open your mind to the debate you will note there are right and left wing reasons for staying in as well.

The irony is with this that you are a mirror image of the swivel eyed bigoted euro sceptic lickspittle you so despise……………………now look what you made me do!

Shame I have so much in common with the British communist party.

 

[beorhthelm]

On child benefit I'm not saying it's not an issue, or it shouldn't change. But it seems to be blown out of proportion as a wedge issue.

it is a tiny issue financially. from a point of principle, its the tiny end of a substantial wedge: we have lost full control over our own welfare policy. it should be 0, no child abroad (and yes i'd include expats, thats another matter) should be entitled to UK benefits.