[Politics] ** EU Elections Poll ** - The vote that we never thought we would get!

[Guinness Boy]

The problem was the country was split down the middle. I suspect the same still holds. The numbers of marchers is not really salient.

But it is important to note that we are lurching towards a second referendum not because the howls and tears of the marching snowflakes has forced the government's hand. It is because it is not possible to negociate a Brexit unless we build a wall between Eire and Ulster to permit a hard no deal Brexit, put a customs and passport border in the Irish sea and throw the Ulstermen and women to the dogs, or agree to stay in a customs union and allow free movement of people (which even I, a remainer, would accept is not a Brexit). There are some slight variations on these themes but this is basically it.

Yes, all of this. We have democratically voted for something that is not actually possible. No wonder the leaders of the other EU countries think we're mad.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Weren't we on our way by legal default in March?

Yes but Mrs May scuppered that and we nt begging to the EU, you've got a short memory
regards
DR

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I've changed my mind from remain to *leave with EEA/EFTA membership*. Not bothered either way about a customs union.

This does NOT mean *leave with no deal* - I'd rather remain than that.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Yes, all of this. We have democratically voted for something that is not actually possible. No wonder the leaders of the other EU countries think we're
They don't want to lose their 39billion because who else is going to pick up the tab LEAVE means LEAVE nothings changed
regards
DR

 

[Mtoto]

That's true. There are undoubtedly millions of people who just can't accept the fact they lost & are very vocal about it. It doesn't mean there is more demand than before. No one knows whether there is more or less demand than before including me.

There are also around 2m British citizens who turned 18 since the referendum and will live with the consequences of Brexit longer than anyone. Have you factored them in, or is it just their bad luck that they weren't born in time?

 

[Guinness Boy]

LEAVE means LEAVE nothings changed

I realise that this is a circular argument that's been had on the main Brexit thread but HWT's whole point (and mine) is that, unless you put up a hard border in Northern Ireland you haven't left because any Tom, Dick or Paddy can walk between the EU and UK just to get the milk and a paper. If you do put up a hard border you break the Good Friday Agreement. QED.

 

[Mtoto]

The problem was the country was split down the middle. I suspect the same still holds. The numbers of marchers is not really salient.

But it is important to note that we are lurching towards a second referendum not because the howls and tears of the marching snowflakes has forced the government's hand. It is because it is not possible to negociate a Brexit unless we build a wall between Eire and Ulster to permit a hard no deal Brexit, put a customs and passport border in the Irish sea and throw the Ulstermen and women to the dogs, or agree to stay in a customs union and allow free movement of people (which even I, a remainer, would accept is not a Brexit). There are some slight variations on these themes but this is basically it.

It still baffles me that the noisiest minority want a no deal Brexit that will immediately allows a porous border between Eire and Ulster for illegal immigration and illegal trading. As far as I can see, their only response to this is that they don't care about Northern Ireland, and it won't happen like this anyway, and any price is worth paying to 'get back control'. And of course they don't care about the immediate need for passports and visas to France and the Costa Del Sol because they never go there.

There is one poster on here I now have on ignore who has been most consistent in his views. Brexit means Brexit. We need to leave, hard, today, and deal with the consequences later. There is a kind of admirable mindless purity to this that is reminiscent of certain hard line catholics, whose solution to everything is to pray and self-flagellate. Admirable, but you wouldn't want such people making any decisions on behalf of the rest of us, from the future of the nation to whether or not to have another cup of tea.

Why? The question was whether we wanted to leave the EU. Unless I got a different ballot paper to everyone else, the single market didn't get a mention.

 

[Baker lite]

Weren't we on our way by legal default in March?

I’ve gone skip, I no longer recognise European law, come join the disco, it’s great to be liberated.Or you could hang around until November the first, upto you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bazbha]

There are also around 2m British citizens who turned 18 since the referendum and will live with the consequences of Brexit longer than anyone. Have you factored them in, or is it just their bad luck that they weren't born in time?

Yet again. No one knows how they would all vote or if at all. Also possibly 2 million people now have 3 years more wisdom & life experience so may now decide to vote leave. Who knows. We had a vote and one side won and another lost which we should act upon. Maybe in 5 years leaving could turn out to be the best thing we ever did. No one knows what the consequences will be as I keep repeating. Just wild presumptions. One thing I think is a realistic is that the EU will be even more like the United States of Europe in 5 years which is a big no thanks from me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why? The question was whether we wanted to leave the EU. Unless I got a different ballot paper to everyone else, the single market didn't get a mention.

Sorry I don't understand what it is you don't understand.

An in or out Brexit referendum is as meaningful as a 'resurrection, yes or no' referendum.

It should never have been offered. It was offered only because the fool Cameron assumed we'd vote remain.

If you mean that how we leave the EU if we vote leave wasn't on the ballott, I agree.

If you mean that a leave vote means we just leave, then all I can say is 'bon voyage'.

 

[bazbha]

Sorry I don't understand what it is you don't understand.

An in or out Brexit referendum is as meaningful as a 'resurrection, yes or no' referendum.

It should never have been offered. It was offered only because the fool Cameron assumed we'd vote remain.

If you mean that how we leave the EU if we vote leave wasn't on the ballott, I agree.

If you mean that a leave vote means we just leave, then all I can say is 'bon voyage'.

The reason Cameron offered us a referendum (you're right though. He was a fool) was due to the huge UKIP vote in the last EU elections. As leave won the referendum he was obviously right to do so. There was been a growing resentment against the EU for many years as we have been forced ever closer without being consulted. Now we have been finally been consulted the result was clear but not popular with those who feel themselves superior to the rest of us. Maybe if Project Fear hadn't insulted our intelligence so much the result could have been different. Project Fear 2 won't work either hopefully. Lets see how the EU election results go tomorrow night to find that out I guess.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The reason Cameron offered us a referendum (you're right though. He was a fool) was due to the huge UKIP vote in the last EU elections. As leave won the referendum he was obviously right to do so. There was been a growing resentment against the EU for many years as we have been forced ever closer without being consulted. Now we have been finally been consulted the result was clear but not popular with those who feel themselves superior to the rest of us. Maybe if Project Fear hadn't insulted our intelligence so much the result could have been different. Project Fear 2 won't work either hopefully. Lets see how the EU election results go tomorrow night to find that out I guess.

Yes the result was clear.

Split down the middle with a small % advantage to the 'leave' vote.

But any result would have been clear, even an exact tie. Clarity is about accuracy. It is not about mandate.

Without wishing to perpetuate a potless discussion, as has been pointed out countless times the referendum is only advisory. The imperaive to 'deliver the will of the people' is simply the 'moral judgement' of our 'honorable politicians'.

Personally, I still feel that resurrection is more likely than Brexit.

Whether our politicians deserved a good kicking via the vote to leave is another issue. As I have said before, after a few beers in the evening I have occasionally been tempted to think 'yeah, fuggit, let's leave - that will show them'. But as noted, the next morning I'm sober again.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, all of this. We have democratically voted for something that is not actually possible. No wonder the leaders of the other EU countries think we're mad.

you know it is entirely possible. if parties made compromises something could be agreed. that shipped sailed, but lets not pretend it wasnt possible.

 

[Guinness Boy]

you know it is entirely possible. if parties made compromises something could be agreed. that shipped sailed, but lets not pretend it wasnt possible.

So how do you prevent free movement of goods and people across the Irish border without breaking the Good Friday Agreement?

 

[beorhthelm]

So how do you prevent free movement of goods and people across the Irish border without breaking the Good Friday Agreement?

they make an agreement on how to do this, given time and effort required. its a matter of politcal will and decisions. i said right back at the start this issue could soften brexit, create an exception for the special circumstances and geography, trade off for something else in the negotiations. sadly thats the past and missed opportunity.

 

[Guinness Boy]

they make an agreement on how to do this, given time and effort required. its a matter of politcal will and decisions. i said right back at the start this issue could soften brexit, create an exception for the special circumstances and geography, trade off for something else in the negotiations. sadly thats the past and missed opportunity.

Farage and his gang should have made banners that said "Leave means Leave, except for parts of Northern Ireland and any constitutional exceptions that may be negotiated in the spirit of compormise"

You'd need a big banner and small font though and Farage's supporters only deal with large writing in crayon.

 

[Surf's Up]

There are also around 2m British citizens who turned 18 since the referendum and will live with the consequences of Brexit longer than anyone. Have you factored them in, or is it just their bad luck that they weren't born in time?

Very good point, especially if you look at the fact that the vast majority of Brexit Party aficionados seem to be from the older generation, presumably harking back to some trouble free, rosy, dewey eyed memory of pre 1971 Britain as a world power, still with the rump of a wonderful empire intact and a fawning, royalty loving Commonwealth gushing with respect for the almighty mother country and who, in some bizarre and perverse way, seem to think that the clock can be wound back and that Blake's England can be re-incarnated by leaving the EU

 

[WATFORD zero]

they make an agreement on how to do this, given time and effort required. its a matter of politcal will and decisions. i said right back at the start this issue could soften brexit, create an exception for the special circumstances and geography, trade off for something else in the negotiations. sadly thats the past and missed opportunity.

Can you give just the briefest of outlines as to how this would work without compromising the EU's single market?

Thanks

 

[beorhthelm]

Can you give just the briefest of outlines as to how this would work without compromising the EU's single market?

Thanks

whats the point, already put up a wall of no compromise. the ship has sailed, 3 years ago better minds than ours could have plotted a course through this better.

 

[WATFORD zero]

whats the point, already put up a wall of no compromise. the ship has sailed, 3 years ago better minds than ours could have plotted a course through this better.

Because this is the magic answer that the Government has been trying to find to the Customs Union/Hard Border issue for the last 3 years. They haven't been able to define one, so if you can give an outline (even briefly) I would be surprised, given that no-one else has managed to give even outline an solution in 3 years.

The point is that if you have an answer, why not tell what it is ?