[Politics] ** EU Elections Poll ** - The vote that we never thought we would get!

[beorhthelm]

issue of single market or customs union?

 

[Surf's Up]

Interesting poll which, if reflected nationally, would summarise the problem with the way the vote will be split quite succinctly i.e the leave parties, the Brexit party + UKIP get 33% of the vote, the 3 Remain parties get 65% of the vote but the Brexit Party wins the contest. I've excluded the Tories and Labour because their respective positions are both fractured and split anyway.

 

[Surf's Up]

Correction ... Remain parties = 55% -

 

[beorhthelm]

the really interesting thing is what results come from rest of EU. im sure i read last week a poll reported majority of europeans dont expect the EU to continue to 2030 or something.

 

[WATFORD zero]

issue of single market or customs union?

Customs Union or Hard Border are the options, but you seem to think there is a third option, that no one in Government seems to have been able to find over the last 3 years.

So how do you prevent free movement of goods and people across the Irish border without breaking the Good Friday Agreement?

they make an agreement on how to do this, given time and effort required. its a matter of politcal will and decisions. i said right back at the start this issue could soften brexit, create an exception for the special circumstances and geography, trade off for something else in the negotiations. sadly thats the past and missed opportunity.

You seem to suggest, there is a solution. Want to let anyone know what it is ?

Or is your new found interest in EU elections stopping you from answering ?

 

[beorhthelm]

Customs Union or Hard Border are the options, but you seem to think there is a third option, that no one in Government seems to have been able to find over the last 3 years.

Want to let anyone know what it is ?

i was making light of switching from single market to customs union. there's no solution from our government. i said greater minds could have found one, i dont believe they are in our government.

 

[WATFORD zero]

i was making light of switching from single market to customs union. there's no solution from our government. i said greater minds could have found one, i dont believe they are in our government.

So no one in Government (from either side of the Brexit divide) can find a solution in 3 years, you have no idea of what a solution would look like, but you are still convinced that there is one that nobody has been able to find yet.

Okey dokey

 

[Wardy's twin]

I just can't believe that the pro-remain parties (or the undemocratics as I like to call them) didn't find an accommodation so that either a LibDem or a Green (not really worth worrying about Change) stood rather than them competing against each other in many seats potentially splitting the pro-Remain vote.

Dumb politics

agree but you could also say same for BREAKIT, UKIP and Tories...

 

[Eeyore]

What is quite clear here, in the whole history of election, never have the losing side been given more concessions or legitimacy than the side that actually won.
What is refreshing though, despite all the condescending jibes and sniping from the liberal elite, the resolve of those of us on the correct side of history are not cowed by the bullying and turning up of noses, if anything it just strengthens the case to get out.

No.

In many of your posts although, in fairness, you actually engage more than PPF's puerile responses, you seem to be comparing the referendum to a cup final. To the winner a trophy. It doesn't work like that. Especially as there is a second stage that has to involve everyone as everyone is affected. The second stage requires another majority mandate that we clearly don't have.

Secondly, it appears that the original mandate is now in doubt. It may be that more folk wish to remain than leave now. We don't know for sure, but policy and decisions have to reflect this.

This is why a 50+1 referendum was insane. Such an equation was always a recipe for conflict for a monumental constitutional change. Had the referendum been held six months later the result may have been different. That is not the 'will of the people' being exercised. The only way a proper mandate being issued can be justifiable is when we can say that there are two for every one in agreement- or at least 60/40- that way it's a binding view. This is reflected in our sham of a parliamentary system that offers full governance to parties that have had as little as 38% of the nations vote. That is not democracy.

But let's set aside the result after declaring it valid. Let's work on the point of leaving the EU as a start.

We now need to decide what the future shape of our nation looks like. Again, everyone is involved and their views should be included. Not 'to the winner the spoils'. Again this is not a cup match- it's everyone's future.

'Leave means leave-no deal' is not a majority view. At least 48% don't think we should leave at all (going by poll of polls) and of those who do there is some division as to how the UK should go about it.

That is the point for which a government should look for its mandate.

You got your result in the original referendum. But you may not get the result you want on its implementation. That being because it's not 'the will of the people'.

 

[Eeyore]

Farage and his gang should have made banners that said "Leave means Leave, except for parts of Northern Ireland and any constitutional exceptions that may be negotiated in the spirit of compormise"

You'd need a big banner and small font though and Farage's supporters only deal with large writing in crayon.

Pretty sure there's a bloke in Ipswich who could help.

 

[Baker lite]

No.

In many of your posts although, in fairness, you actually engage more than PPF's puerile responses, you seem to be comparing the referendum to a cup final. To the winner a trophy. It doesn't work like that. Especially as there is a second stage that has to involve everyone as everyone is affected. The second stage requires another majority mandate that we clearly don't have.

Secondly, it appears that the original mandate is now in doubt. It may be that more folk wish to remain than leave now. We don't know for sure, but policy and decisions have to reflect this.

This is why a 50+1 referendum was insane. Such an equation was always a recipe for conflict for a monumental constitutional change. Had the referendum been held six months later the result may have been different. That is not the 'will of the people' being exercised. The only way a proper mandate being issued can be justifiable is when we can say that there are two for every one in agreement- or at least 60/40- that way it's a binding view. This is reflected in our sham of a parliamentary system that offers full governance to parties that have had as little as 38% of the nations vote. That is not democracy.

But let's set aside the result after declaring it valid. Let's work on the point of leaving the EU as a start.

We now need to decide what the future shape of our nation looks like. Again, everyone is involved and their views should be included. Not 'to the winner the spoils'. Again this is not a cup match- it's everyone's future.

'Leave means leave-no deal' is not a majority view. At least 48% don't think we should leave at all (going by poll of polls) and of those who do there is some division as to how the UK should go about it.

That is the point for which a government should look for its mandate.

You got your result in the original referendum. But you may not get the result you want on its implementation. That being because it's not 'the will of the people'.

How do You imagine people that voted to leave would be appeased if remain would’ve achieved a majority?
Two questions on the paper, remain in the EU, leave the EU. Leave won, we haven’t left, national disgrace.

 

[Mtoto]

Sorry I don't understand what it is you don't understand.

An in or out Brexit referendum is as meaningful as a 'resurrection, yes or no' referendum.

It should never have been offered. It was offered only because the fool Cameron assumed we'd vote remain.

If you mean that how we leave the EU if we vote leave wasn't on the ballott, I agree.

If you mean that a leave vote means we just leave, then all I can say is 'bon voyage'.

You seemed to suggest that leaving the EU and staying in the single market isn't Brexit. I don't understand why. It's still leaving, and that's what they all voted for.

 

[WATFORD zero]

How do You imagine people that voted to leave would be appeased if remain would’ve achieved a majority?
Two questions on the paper, remain in the EU, leave the EU. Leave won, we haven’t left, national disgrace.

It is a national disgrace.

These pesky Brexiteer MPs shouting 'This isn't what we voted for' and then voting against the Brexit bill and stopping us leaving

 

[albion68]

It is a national disgrace.

These pesky Brexiteer MPs shouting 'This isn't what we voted for' and then voting against the Brexit bill and stopping us leaving

Nearly all Labour MP`s voted it down so how can you just blame the ERG , are Labour a Remain Party ? What are there reasons workers rights etc or force an election ?. Labour had a lot of leave vote in the referendum what do you think is going on ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nearly all Labour MP`s voted it down so how can you just blame the ERG , are Labour a Remain Party ? What are there reasons workers rights etc or force an election ?. Labour had a lot of leave vote in the referendum what do you think is going on ?

I don't think I mentioned the ERG or Labour or any other party or group ?

There were 'Brexit supporting MPs' from all around the house that voted against TMs Brexit bill and stopped us leaving because it wasn't the sort of Brexit they wanted

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You seemed to suggest that leaving the EU and staying in the single market isn't Brexit. I don't understand why. It's still leaving, and that's what they all voted for.

Good one.

'They' do not all want to stay in the single market......

But you know that, of course

 

[The Clamp]

How do You imagine people that voted to leave would be appeased if remain would’ve achieved a majority?
Two questions on the paper, remain in the EU, leave the EU. Leave won, we haven’t left, national disgrace.

We haven’t left because nobody on any side can figure out a way to do it without ruining the U.K.
There’s a reason for that. It can’t be done. And that’s why it hasn’t been done. That and the fact that no leave voter really knows what they were voting for and their bickering and inability to agree has delayed, delayed, delayed.
It’s likely we will just crash out in October. The WORST outcome.

 

[LadySeagull]

No, the worst outcome would be asking not to leave after all.

If you think the EU made it difficult for the UK when we said we wanted to leave, what do you think will happen if we don't, now?

it appears that the original mandate is now in doubt.

Who told you that, and why did you believe it?

 

[The Clamp]

No, the worst outcome would be asking not to leave after all.

If you think the EU made it difficult for the UK when we said we wanted to leave, what do you think will happen if we don't, now?

Who told you that, and why did you believe it?

Obviously we have totally opposing views on Brexit.
To me though it’s clear that Brexit would be disastrous for the U.K. and not just some short term disruption but generational adverse consequences.
There would be short term upset for some in the U.K. if Brexit is reversed but it would be the best thing to do in the long term.
However, I think we will crash out in October resulting in a Pyrrhic victory for leave voters.
You’ll get your departure but you’ll also see how bad it is for the country.

 

[vegster]

No, the worst outcome would be asking not to leave after all.

If you think the EU made it difficult for the UK when we said we wanted to leave, what do you think will happen if we don't, now?

Who told you that, and why did you believe it?

You really seem to be somewhat paranoid to say the least. So, you think by leaving we were going to get all kinds of crap from the EU, but if we were to stay we would get even more crap from the EU ? So maybe they will force us to drive on the right or sign up to even more Health and Safety protocols ? Obviously they would have to annexe us as an adjunct ? are you afraid that we might have to produce Cucumbers with a much reduced angle of curvature in order to remain part of the EU ?