EU and AstraZeneca

[shingle]

That was in response to post#57.... If the EU is demanding AstraZeneca publish their contract I would assume they ( The EU ) feel they are in the right, morally and contractually.

Stop digging Vege

 

[rigton70]

To be fair if the UK Government could see red tape coming the supermarkets would be fully stocked in Northern Ireland.

It's fine to criticise the EU for "bureaucracy" with its 32,000 civil servants, but UK alone employs almost half a million.

Department for Work and Pensions employs 80,790 alone.

Out of interest how many civil servants do the other EU countries employ? ie per country?

 

[clapham_gull]

Out of interest how many civil servants do the other EU countries employ? ie per country?

No idea, my only point being is that you don't like unelected change-resistant bureaucrats don't forget ours.

It's undoubtedly the only thing I agree with Dominic Cummings about, a bit.

 

[Boroseagull]

Excuse me butting in, but Robert Peston, hardly a friend of BJ or the government laid the facts out yesterday - and very clearly;

Thread by @Peston on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

1,298 views
Robert Peston Profile picture
Robert Peston

Twitter logo
26 Jan, 9 tweets, 2 min read
The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave...
AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford...
had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU...
insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August...
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem...
is in the course of being sorted. AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented...
amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already...
have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".
PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs



Now living in Spain I certainly take no pleasure form this, but facts are facts something the EU has to face one day. Vaccine for us two? Well as 75 approaches the best we can hope for will be later, very much so, this year.

Already vaccines have been spirited out for the 'needy' politicians, mayors, important ranks in the army etc. and there has been some resignation caused by this but there is only one reason for this unsightly attitude - lack of vaccines that is blamed squarely on Brussels.

So well done UK, the government and the inspired choice of the lady appointed to oversee vaccine procurement, it's what any country should be doing for its citizens.

Finally, if you are still reading, will the BBC and The Guardian own up to their July (around the 10th I think) headlines that the UK government are letting everyone down by not joining in with an EU vaccine order? They both slaughtered BJ for the decision - but hey ho - he got it spot on.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I don't know - what is the French for 'we're not going to blink first'?

Nous ne serons pas les premiers a clignoter Les yeux...... or something like that.

And I doubt if they ever said it because they dealt with the negotiations like grown-ups.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Nous ne serons pas les premiers a clignoter Les yeux...... or something like that.

And I doubt if they ever said it because they dealt with the negotiations like grown-ups.

They certainly are maintaining that mature approach now.

 

[clapham_gull]

Shocking what's going on in Spain, I read that yesterday. Countries like Spain should have been organising it themselves.

It's an opinion but I don't think we would have allowed this to happen as members.

Who knows.

We need to help out wherever we can.

 

[Eeyore]

I'm pretty sure had we still been in the EU after a successful Remain campaign all the noise from the pro-EU bods on here and in the press would have been clamouring for the UK government to be good neighbourly Europeans and act in harmony wth nearly all of our EU partners though ...

I voted remain, but not as a huge fan of the centralist EU project. I think my office analogy is a good one here.

The idea of central procurement makes sense in a way, but only if those responsible are on the ball. Those in the EU clearly weren't.

The added advantage the UK had was that the vaccine came from these shores. But a look at history said that the UK, US and Germany (and possibly China these days) were the most likely providers. Thus it proved.

The potential vaccine success is a credit to the government at a time of many red crosses. The only thing that I find sad is the inevitable harvesting by richer nations. In an ideal world, the whole enterprise would have had an efficient central direction led by the WHO. But that, I know, is fanciful thinking on my behalf. Too many interests, too much distrust. It's the poor that suffer the most.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Excuse me butting in, but Robert Peston, hardly a friend of BJ or the government laid the facts out yesterday - and very clearly;

Thread by @Peston on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

1,298 views
Robert Peston Profile picture
Robert Peston

Twitter logo
26 Jan, 9 tweets, 2 min read
The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave...
AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford...
had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU...
insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August...
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem...
is in the course of being sorted. AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented...
amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already...
have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".
PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs



Now living in Spain I certainly take no pleasure form this, but facts are facts something the EU has to face one day. Vaccine for us two? Well as 75 approaches the best we can hope for will be later, very much so, this year.

Already vaccines have been spirited out for the 'needy' politicians, mayors, important ranks in the army etc. and there has been some resignation caused by this but there is only one reason for this unsightly attitude - lack of vaccines that is blamed squarely on Brussels.

So well done UK, the government and the inspired choice of the lady appointed to oversee vaccine procurement, it's what any country should be doing for its citizens.

Finally, if you are still reading, will the BBC and The Guardian own up to their July (around the 10th I think) headlines that the UK government are letting everyone down by not joining in with an EU vaccine order? They both slaughtered BJ for the decision - but hey ho - he got it spot on.

So if Germany and France were unable to negotiate independently it is fanciful to expect we would have done had we been a part of the EU

 

[Eeyore]

Shocking what's going on in Spain, I read that yesterday. Countries like Spain should have been organising it themselves.

It's an opinion but I don't think we would have allowed this to happen as members.

Who knows.

We need to help out wherever we can.

I think the UK would have gone down the German route with central procurement and a large sneaky order on the side.

It's lip service really. A kind of collaborative approach with the usual element of distrust. Somewhat expected and grudgingly understood.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They certainly are maintaining that mature approach now.

I usually work on the basis that “there’s probably more to it than that” when people on either side are taking what could be a simplistic view on things. In secondary school education today they might call it critical thinking.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I usually work on the basis that “there’s probably more to it than that” when people on either side are taking what could be a simplistic view on things. In secondary school education today they might call it critical thinking.

Excellent.

The more simple and less gifted might suggest that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck then it might well be a duck.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Excuse me butting in, but Robert Peston, hardly a friend of BJ or the government laid the facts out yesterday - and very clearly;

Thread by @Peston on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

1,298 views
Robert Peston Profile picture
Robert Peston

Twitter logo
26 Jan, 9 tweets, 2 min read
The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave...
AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems). Here is the important timeline. In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford...
had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU...
insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August...
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected. The problem...
is in the course of being sorted. AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented...
amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already...
have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".
PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs



Now living in Spain I certainly take no pleasure form this, but facts are facts something the EU has to face one day. Vaccine for us two? Well as 75 approaches the best we can hope for will be later, very much so, this year.

Already vaccines have been spirited out for the 'needy' politicians, mayors, important ranks in the army etc. and there has been some resignation caused by this but there is only one reason for this unsightly attitude - lack of vaccines that is blamed squarely on Brussels.

So well done UK, the government and the inspired choice of the lady appointed to oversee vaccine procurement, it's what any country should be doing for its citizens.

Finally, if you are still reading, will the BBC and The Guardian own up to their July (around the 10th I think) headlines that the UK government are letting everyone down by not joining in with an EU vaccine order? They both slaughtered BJ for the decision - but hey ho - he got it spot on.

Thank you. It's important to be accurate. I also would like people to think not so much about the mistakes of the The EU Commission but also their democratic accountability. It's clear in the UK. Boris carries the can for anything and everything. But in Spain, Germany Portugal ect well you cant blame the member states so who do they vote out should they wish ? As for the corruption of local mayors taking the vaccine, people have to remember many EU countries were dictatorships in our lifetime. Spain untl the mid 1970s, Portugal mid 1980's ect ect. It's why the EU is a step up for democracy for those countries, but in reality, the EU has the power in its appointed and not directly accountable Commission/Civil Service and its weak member state Parliaments then implement what the Commission says. Think hard on that. It's the wrong way around.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Excellent.

The more simple and less gifted might suggest that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck then it might well be a duck.

I think you’re helping to make my point. The whole situation around the supply of vaccinations in the EU might be a bit more complicated than identifying a duck

I’m not saying the EU isn’t wrong. I haven’t gone in to it in any depth. I’m just not jumping on bandwagons and taking other people’s word for it.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Excellent.

The more simple and less gifted might suggest that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck then it might well be a duck.

Doesn't mean its a duck though

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I see the EU is demanding that AstraZeneca publish the contract they signed with each other.

I read an article on this yesterday. Problem for AZ is that they are barred from publishing the contract due to a confidentiality clause. The worrying thing is that it's a clause insisted on by the EU in all of it's contracts ! You really couldn't make it up.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's an opinion but I don't think we would have allowed this to happen as members.

Oh come on ! You berate people on this very thread for using opinion/prediction and that they should stick to the facts. Then you do exactly the same !

 

[Baker lite]

The EU is behaving like the drunk thug that staggered into McDonalds,takes half an hour to decide what they want,then starts a fight because people that ordered and paid for their food before them get their food first.
Thank god we’re out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Billy the Fish]

I think the UK would have gone down the German route with central procurement and a large sneaky order on the side.

It's lip service really. A kind of collaborative approach with the usual element of distrust. Somewhat expected and grudgingly understood.

But that hasn't helped Germany at all. They've been told off by the Commission for breaking rank and their order presumably isn't being expedited.

Regarding access to vaccine for poorer nations, it sounds bad on the face of it but if manufacture and supply is the limiting factor then naturally some people are going to get it before others, it's already been scaled up on an unprecedented level.
Europe and the US have been hit harder in terms of infections and economic impact than any developing nation, on a plane we're told to put our own oxygen on first so we're awake to help others and I see this as a similar situation.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I would rather (just about on balance, because it has huge faults) be in the EU than out of it - but those who continue to defend their handling of the vaccine rollout across Europe are being ridiculously tribal and defending the indefensible here. They've f***ed up big time and they know it. Stella Kyriakiades (EU Commissioner for Health and Food Safety) is now desperately trying to blame others for their failings.

The UK Govt. gambled on the Ox/AZ Vaccine - months before the EU placed their order (remember GovUK have gambled on several other vaccines too which have not yet been approved) Perhaps they just got lucky that this particular vaccine was made available so quickly?

Would we be so far ahead of other European Countries with our vaccination programme if were we still in the EU - who knows - I think the telling part of Peston's Tweet is the following extract:

++

...The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK. BUT the EU...
insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August...

AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already...
have been sorted. A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

++

As I said in my earlier post the UK Gov has so SO much wrong in their handling of this pandemic, but they have got this right - and the EU have failed miserably .