[Cricket] England vs Australia Third Ashes Test - Leeds 22nd-26th August 2019

[Triggaaar]

I believe we cannot win them back with a drawn series.

Agreed. If we draw the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. If we lose the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. It's just confusing because 'the Ashes' means two things.

Does the urn actually have ashes inside? Weren't the Ashes originally so named by the media, as something like England cricket being destroyed or something? I know I've heard something about bails being burnt to make ashes, but I can't remember if that was made up or not.

 

[Gwylan]

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Does the urn actually have ashes inside? Weren't the Ashes originally so named by the media, as something like England cricket being destroyed or something? I know I've heard something about bails being burnt to make ashes, but I can't remember if that was made up or not.

We don't know whether it does or not. Reputedly, it contains the ashes of a burned bail but no-one knows for sure. It actually wasn't presented to England but to the England captain, one Ivo Bligh, by a young lady (whom he later married).

The urn was in response to a mock advertisement in the Sporting Life (I think, certainly some sporting paper) which said something like "In remembrance of English cricket which died at The Oval. The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Australia" (CBA to look up the actual wording). Bligh was presented with the urn when his England team won the series down under

 

[knocky1]

Agreed. If we draw the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. If we lose the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. It's just confusing because 'the Ashes' means two things.

Does the urn actually have ashes inside? Weren't the Ashes originally so named by the media, as something like England cricket being destroyed or something? I know I've heard something about bails being burnt to make ashes, but I can't remember if that was made up or not.

I’ll accept that but I’ve taken this very seriously since the early ‘70’s.

 

[Eeyore]

We don't know whether it does or not. Reputedly, it contains the ashes of a burned bail but no-one knows for sure. It actually wasn't presented to England but to the England captain, one Ivo Bligh, by a young lady (whom he later married).

The urn was in response to a mock advertisement in the Sporting Life (I think, certainly some sporting paper) which said something like "In remembrance of English cricket which died at The Oval. The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Australia" (CBA to look up the actual wording). Bligh was presented with the urn when his England team won the series down under

Sporting Times. Although, I must confess, I thought it was The Times itself. Learn something new...

 

[Sussex Nomad]

It's also amusing to see that of those 14, 6 were lost by Australia. Who also lost 3 out of the four closest wins by runs (1, 2 and 3 runs). And also are the only team to lose after enforcing the follow-on: three times!

Bunch of chokers (over their sandpaper).

 

[Sussex Nomad]

For years now the Aussies have wanted the original Ashes if they won them. MCC refuses to let them have it. I love that.

 

[Bodian]

Agreed. If we draw the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. If we lose the Ashes, the Aussies retain the Ashes. It's just confusing because 'the Ashes' means two things.

I've always assumed there was technically a difference between 'The Ashes' (the burned bails in the little urn ..... maybe) and 'The Ashes Series' (the series of tests to decide who is the nominal current holder of 'The Ashes'. I suspect it might be one of those things which has transmuted over the years, whereby we now routinely refer to the 'Ashes Series' as 'The Ashes'.

 

[Triggaaar]

We don't know whether it does or not. Reputedly, it contains the ashes of a burned bail but no-one knows for sure.

Ah, that explains my foggy memory.

The urn was in response to a mock advertisement in the Sporting Life (I think, certainly some sporting paper) which said something like "In remembrance of English cricket which died at The Oval. The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Australia" (CBA to look up the actual wording).

Thanks, that's roughly what I thought.

Bligh was presented with the urn when his England team won the series down under

So firstly there was the mock advertisement, then and urn was created (created by the English?), and the first team to win after that was the English?

It's a bit weird really, if the two teams are playing for the ashes of English cricket, which died at The Oval.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Not all Aussie v England games are Ashes series, or they weren't. I think, only in recent decades they have made any tests between the countries Ashes tests. Seems a bit weird but them was the rules.

 

[Gwylan]

So firstly there was the mock advertisement, then and urn was created (created by the English?), and the first team to win after that was the English?

It's a bit weird really, if the two teams are playing for the ashes of English cricket, which died at The Oval.

I'm not sure that it was created by the English. It was some young Australian women who presented it (and, as I said, Bligh married one of them). Why Aussie women did this, I've no idea.

And the urn itself was not presented to England but to Bligh personally. It was kept at his family home in Kent and was only presented to Lord's, where it remains, after his death.

 

[Triggaaar]

Bunch of chokers (over their sandpaper).

I know you're joking (at their expense), but there were a few good examples of choking right at the end. Firstly, Cummins and Paine wasting their last review on an lbw shout that was clear as day not out. Then Stokes, with only 1 run required for a draw, choking under pressure and calling Leach for run that wasn't there, quickly followed by Lyon ****ing up the run out. Lyon then did brilliantly to regain his composure and trap Stokes (who choked again) lbw, only for the umpire to not give it.

Quite a contrast to the WC final where both teams were practically faultless at the death.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I'm not sure that it was created by the English. It was some young Australian women who presented it (and, as I said, Bligh married one of them). Why Aussie women did this, I've no idea.

And the urn itself was not presented to England but to Bligh personally. It was kept at his family home in Kent and was only presented to Lord's, where it remains, after his death.

What a great fact, you sure the urn is not at HQ?

 

[Triggaaar]

For years now the Aussies have wanted the original Ashes if they won them. MCC refuses to let them have it. I love that.

They did go to Australia a few years back didn't they?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

They did go to Australia a few years back didn't they?

No mate, never.

 

[knocky1]

It's a bit weird really, if the two teams are playing for the ashes of English cricket, which died at The Oval.

America won a war of independence. Australia won a cricket game and it’s been great ever since. Win or lose.

 

[Gwylan]

Not all Aussie v England games are Ashes series, or they weren't. I think, only in recent decades they have made any tests between the countries Ashes tests. Seems a bit weird but them was the rules.

I think the last one NOT to be an Ashes series was 1979-80, which was a three test series (which is why the Ashes weren't at stake). We lost it 3-0, so it was just as well

 

[Triggaaar]

I've always assumed there was technically a difference between 'The Ashes' (the burned bails in the little urn ..... maybe) and 'The Ashes Series' (the series of tests to decide who is the nominal current holder of 'The Ashes'. I suspect it might be one of those things which has transmuted over the years, whereby we now routinely refer to the 'Ashes Series' as 'The Ashes'.

I've no idea if something like 'The Ashes Series' is the correct, full term, but when any of us say we're watching the Ashes, we don't mean we're sat watching an urn.

 

[Gwylan]

No mate, never.

Yes, for the Ashes series of 2006/7 - why? I don't know

 

[Triggaaar]

Not all Aussie v England games are Ashes series, or they weren't. I think, only in recent decades they have made any tests between the countries Ashes tests. Seems a bit weird but them was the rules.

Well there wouldn't have been 20-20 games, and maybe there were fewer one day games, so did we play tests against them more often than once every two years?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I think the last one NOT to be an Ashes series was 1979-80, which was a three test series (which is why the Ashes weren't at stake). We lost it 3-0, so it was just as well

It seems everything is ironed out nowadays. I remember six tests series between us and the Sandpaper merchants and I believe the WIndies.