[Cricket] England v South Africa- Fourth Test- Johannesburg, Jan 24-28 2020

[Eeyore]

The South African side, had there been no Kolpak and quota arrangement, would have been super strong.

Kolpak, I assume, finishes at the end of the year.

I do wonder if the the quota system is now doing more harm than good for player development.

I'd like to see the range of views on this.

Still, England deserve the victory. Still think they need more bowlers to come through. Broad and Anderson will be gone soon. Wood is 30 and quite prone to injury.

Ollie Pope is going to be around for a long career.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Re Koplak Saffers - this article is a year old, but shows the size of the issue:

https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/sas-kolpak-xi-would-they-beat-proteas-20190227

South Africa really need to grasp the nettle of the whole quota based selection system - if it's not going to be applied (as it hasn't in this series) then they need to embrace their overseas stars.

On talksport they were discussing this the other day, and raised the example of the South African rugby team, which made a concession to overseas based players, allowing them to play. Perhaps they need to reach a compromise to allow Wiese / Van Zyl etc to play for Sussex and South Africa...

 

[Guinness Boy]

Quite a turnaround. But most of the England team were ill during that test. Shows how poor South Africa are at the moment. OR England have suddenly become brilliant? Perhaps somewhere in the middle.

The illness can't have helped and, yes, the Saffers are horribly poor and Big Vern retiring won't help them at all. But I do think we were decent and Root finally seemed to sort his captaincy out. Even if it was all them being poor there has been a lot of confidence instilled into the top order and cricket is hugely a mental / confidence game.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

We need to wrap Mark Wood up in cotton wool.

 

[Gwylan]

On talksport they were discussing this the other day, and raised the example of the South African rugby team, which made a concession to overseas based players, allowing them to play. Perhaps they need to reach a compromise to allow Wiese / Van Zyl etc to play for Sussex and South Africa...

I can't see how they can reach a compromise as allowing them to play for both would mean that Sussex had three overseas players - I can't see the ECB agreeing to any changes that meant more overseas players coming here.

We need to wrap Mark Wood up in cotton wool.

One thing that this series win has meant for Sussex is that Archer is no shoo-in for test call-ups this summer. Broad will certainly be in and it looks like Wood will be too. If Anderson is fit, then he'll play and Curran will be ahead of Archer because of his batting (England like bowlers who can bat). It could well be that we'll see Archer after all.

 

[blue-shifted]

The South African side, had there been no Kolpak and quota arrangement, would have been super strong.

Kolpak, I assume, finishes at the end of the year.

I do wonder if the the quota system is now doing more harm than good for player development.

I'd like to see the range of views on this.

Still, England deserve the victory. Still think they need more bowlers to come through. Broad and Anderson will be gone soon. Wood is 30 and quite prone to injury.

Ollie Pope is going to be around for a long career.

The quota system probably isn't helping the South African team, but if I'd grown up living there, I'd probably be thinking that there are bigger issues in the country than just winning cricket matches.

The fact that most of their best bowlers are playing County Championship instead, to me, highlights the ludicrous financial inequality in world cricket. Playing test cricket should be more financially rewarding than playing in another countries 4 day game. Having said that, if I was Graham Smith, I'd be keen not to make it a point of principle and create some exceptions.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I can't see how they can reach a compromise as allowing them to play for both would mean that Sussex had three overseas players - I can't see the ECB agreeing to any changes that meant more overseas players coming here.



One thing that this series win has meant for Sussex is that Archer is no shoo-in for test call-ups this summer. Broad will certainly be in and it looks like Wood will be too. If Anderson is fit, then he'll play and Curran will be ahead of Archer because of his batting (England like bowlers who can bat). It could well be that we'll see Archer after all.

The chances of Broad, Wood, Jofra and Sir Jimmy ALL being fit at any one time, are close to zero, surely?

I doubt Jofra will be playing any CC games for Sussex.

 

[blue-shifted]

I can't see how they can reach a compromise as allowing them to play for both would mean that Sussex had three overseas players - I can't see the ECB agreeing to any changes that meant more overseas players coming here.



One thing that this series win has meant for Sussex is that Archer is no shoo-in for test call-ups this summer. Broad will certainly be in and it looks like Wood will be too. If Anderson is fit, then he'll play and Curran will be ahead of Archer because of his batting (England like bowlers who can bat). It could well be that we'll see Archer after all.

I agree, I think we will see more of Archer in Hove. All of a sudden there's huge competition for bowling places in the test team and I can see Archer being the odd man out. I think he'll start in white ball cricket though.

In terms of the test line up, you also didn't mention Woakes. Olly Stone is highly thought of, and that's without considering that we will almost certainly always play a spinner at home.

 

[Gwylan]

The chances of Broad, Wood, Jofra and Sir Jimmy ALL being fit at any one time, are close to zero, surely?

I doubt Jofra will be playing any CC games for Sussex.

I'm not sure about that: he's still young and has plenty of time to good. Anderson went back to county cricket after his debut - he did OK. You missed out Curran who is sure to play (he's left handed and bats too) and they're sure to player a spinner too. So they only need two of those four fit.

Anderson won't be on the next Ashes tour, nor I suspect will Broad, they'd need Archer then - there's no rush right now

 

[CHAPPERS]

Stokes -

Invariably, he delivered. Only five other players have ever claimed 10 wickets, taken 10 catches and scored over 300 runs in a series: it's a list that includes Sir Ian Botham and Sir Garfield Sobers. Stokes is in that company now.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-pope-mark-wood-shine-triumphant-england-tour

Some player.

 

[crodonilson]

I'm not sure about that: he's still young and has plenty of time to good. Anderson went back to county cricket after his debut - he did OK. You missed out Curran who is sure to play (he's left handed and bats too) and they're sure to player a spinner too. So they only need two of those four fit.

Anderson won't be on the next Ashes tour, nor I suspect will Broad, they'd need Archer then - there's no rush right now

I think both Broad AND Anderson will be on the next Ashes tour but they almost certainly won't both play in the same test. Might work out well being able to rotate the two of them through the series so they don't have to play back to back tests and their experience will be important.

If neither travelled our bowling attack looks very, very light.

 

[Gwylan]

I think both Broad AND Anderson will be on the next Ashes tour but they almost certainly won't both play in the same test. Might work out well being able to rotate the two of them through the series so they don't have to play back to back tests and their experience will be important.

If neither travelled our bowling attack looks very, very light.

Anderson will be nearly 40 when we next play Australia - that's a big ask for a player who's missed most of two out of three of the last test series through injury. Stuart Broad will be 35 so he's got more chance but he's not injury free either.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I think both Broad AND Anderson will be on the next Ashes tour but they almost certainly won't both play in the same test. Might work out well being able to rotate the two of them through the series so they don't have to play back to back tests and their experience will be important.

If neither travelled our bowling attack looks very, very light.

Excluding Broad & Anderson, from just the SA touring party we have:

Fast to Slow

Wood - FR
Archer - FR

Stokes - FMR

Craig Overton - MR
Woakes - MR
Curran - ML

Bess - OB
Leach - OB
Parkinson - LB

Plus we have other players who didn't travel.

Olly Stone
Moeen Ali
Jamie Overton
Saqib Mahmood

 

[crodonilson]

Excluding Broad & Anderson, from just the SA touring party we have:

Fast to Slow

Wood - FR
Archer - FR

Stokes - FMR

Craig Overton - MR
Woakes - MR
Curran - ML

Bess - OB
Leach - OB
Parkinson - LB

Plus we have other players who didn't travel.

Olly Stone
Moeen Ali
Jamie Overton
Saqib Mahmood

To win in Oz we are going to need proper pace bowlers, those who can consistently bowl above 90mph or at least tall bowlers who hit the deck hard and cause problems with bounce. Archer will be pivotal, so to would Wood but his injury record means you can't hang your hat on him. Woakes' form abroad is atrocious, I wouldn't be confident if he's opening the bowling or first change. Curran won't get much out of AUssie pitches and is 10mph too slow in their conditions so I'd only be confident about Archer and Stokes, we still need to find 2 more quick bowlers and a reliable spinner.

 

[Eeyore]

Anderson will be nearly 40 when we next play Australia - that's a big ask for a player who's missed most of two out of three of the last test series through injury. Stuart Broad will be 35 so he's got more chance but he's not injury free either.

I suspect Anderson will retire before then. He's one injury away and touring is clearly a strain.

I'm not convinced of the bright future which can carry folk away on the back of one result. Let's face it, it's always measured against the next Ashes series.

Archer is an instant pick, Wood when he is not breaking down, and obviously Stokes. Curran is off and on. That is four, but beyond that we move to very average. Hopefully they'll be a couple more breaking through.

It's been a splendid series but we must weight it against an opposition in turmoil.

I think our Test team is about average when weighted against all others.

They'll consistently win home series, but travelling, like with all the others, means a need for quality that I don't think is quite there yet.

 

[Eeyore]

View attachment 119552

The original Sunday league shirt is back on sale for pre-order at the Sussex CCC shop. My favouritist one EVER.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

To win in Oz we are going to need proper pace bowlers, those who can consistently bowl above 90mph or at least tall bowlers who hit the deck hard and cause problems with bounce. Archer will be pivotal, so to would Wood but his injury record means you can't hang your hat on him. Woakes' form abroad is atrocious, I wouldn't be confident if he's opening the bowling or first change. Curran won't get much out of AUssie pitches and is 10mph too slow in their conditions so I'd only be confident about Archer and Stokes, we still need to find 2 more quick bowlers and a reliable spinner.

Olly Stone can bowl 90+ MPH as well.

So, Perm 2 from Archer / Wood / Stone as your strike bowlers.

Stokes is there to break stands / rough them up.

Woakes / Curran - both swing bowlers, one right the other left handed. With the Kookaburra ball, may only get new ball and then reverse later on dry pitches


I don't know enough about Overton x 2 and Mahmood to comment.

Plus, we then have spin options:

Root (part time)
Leach
Bess
Parkinson
Moeen

 

[Papa Lazarou]

As I mentioned, we have some pace bowling talent lined up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51294203

Saqib Mahmood, Olly Stone and Craig Overton will be the first recipients of England Pace Bowling Development Contracts this summer.

It gives the England and Wales Cricket Board more control over when they play for their counties.

Mahmood, 22, Stone, 26, and Overton, 25, will also have a "significant" amount of the salary they earn at their counties paid for by the ECB.

The new contracts will run until 30 September.

"A strong supply line of high-quality seam bowlers is essential for sustained England Team success," England managing director Ashley Giles said.

 

[Perry Milkins]

Olly Stone can bowl 90+ MPH as well.

So, Perm 2 from Archer / Wood / Stone as your strike bowlers.

Stokes is there to break stands / rough them up.

Woakes / Curran - both swing bowlers, one right the other left handed. With the Kookaburra ball, may only get new ball and then reverse later on dry pitches


I don't know enough about Overton x 2 and Mahmood to comment.

Plus, we then have spin options:

Root (part time)
Leach
Bess
Parkinson
Moeen

What about Garton? Is he on the radar?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

What about Garton? Is he on the radar?

Not mentioned in the article.