[Football] Eng-Ger-Land v Italy tonight

[Renegade1]

You would hear plenty of whining from the opposition. Its supposed to be used for clear and obvious errors, that was not clear and obvious so it is not working perfectly unless it is now going to be a case of we review every incident in the penalty area.

It was clear and obvious to the ref otherwise he would not have used it.
At the end of the day Var was shown here to work perfectly.The correct decision given with no big delay and
a team that deserved a draw minimum got it.

 

[maffew]

Please tell me you are 99% sure it was a pen because anything less and you will look silly.

No I wont look silly, dont care if I do. I'm certainly not anywhere near as much as 99% sure it was a penalty, despite the benefit of multiple replays. So I repeat myself, it was not, even watching again a clear and obvious mistake by the ref not giving it in the first place. This game doesnt matter, there will be ones where it does though and I would rather be discussing after a game should it have been a penalty or not, rather than should VAR have been used. Heck there will be games where it is called several times, every time someone goes down in the box and I dont agree that it should be used in that way.

Heaven help us when Bruno comes back, the VAR will be awarding penalties for every corner when he tugs a shirt

 

[BensGrandad]

Who contacted who? Did the ref ask the VAR or did they draw the refs attention to a mistake as they saw it.

 

[The Large One]

I get what you are saying, I'm not 100% whether it was a pen or not. Though having had the privilege of watching it MULTIPLE times I cant see that it was a clear and obvious error by the ref

A foul is a foul yes but not sure this was. The Italian team didn't even appear to appeal for a penalty, they thought it was a goal kick, then a corner. They cant use VAR for decisions like that. I am an advocate of VAR (certainly not for this world cup as it's not established enough) and understand it will take time to get right. If it was my team I swear I would be screaming for a penalty and it'd be a boring game if there were no controversies. VAR is meant to stop controversial errors not cause more. But that was soft, and just watching it again, it really wasn't clear and obvious that the ref cocked it up (it wasnt a stamp or anything, if that was a deliberate foul on the top of his foot there should have been a booking as well)

As much as I don't want to see VAR (I'd prefer the game to be more honest, and played in real time rather than be TV remote controlled), I think you're missing the point on several issues.

• The fact the Italians didn't appeal for the penalty is irrelevant. They, like the ref, evidently missed Tarkowski standing on Chiesa's foot

• They CAN use VAR for that, because the VAR ref is there to point out something that the on-pitch ref has clearly missed - in this instance, a possible penalty decision

• The main controversy (which you're saying VAR is supposed to stop) is whether it was a foul at all. Having reviewed it, the ref decided it was, having had the suggestion of that put to him by the VAR ref. In other words, it's highly likely the VAR ref thought it was a pen, and when he got his colleague to look, he agreed

• The fact that Tarkowski treading on Chiesa's foot was accidental (clearly it was) doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty. The notion of intent was taken out of the rules yonks ago. It's whether it was careless, reckless or with excessive force. I'd say it was careless. Chiesa was clearly looking for the pen, but sadly Tarkowski obliged him

Additionally, for me, there's no such thing as a 'soft penalty' - it was either a foul or it wasn't (or it was handball or it wasn't - though there is guidance offered to referees on that one; the mythical 'ball to hand' defence), and once it does cross the threshold of it being a foul in the opinion of the referee, then a penalty (or free-kick) is awarded.

 

[The Large One]

Heaven help us when Bruno comes back, the VAR will be awarding penalties for every corner when he tugs a shirt

Which is exactly what they should be doing.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Whoever decided it was a clear and obvious error. It wasn’t. It was 50:50 at best.

I don't think it was a pen because the player put his foot out into Tarkowski's stride, which is the only reason he got stood on. He was going down at the time. Not sure the ref will have seen that in the heat of the moment, instead focusing on the studs on the foot. Reminded me a bit of the Stephens incident.

 

[tigertim68]

It was clear and obvious to the ref otherwise he would not have used it.
At the end of the day Var was shown here to work perfectly.The correct decision given with no big delay and
a team that deserved a draw minimum got it.

See you in the World Cup , oh sorry you are not going

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't think it was a pen because the player put his foot out into Tarkowski's stride, which is the only reason he got stood on. He was going down at the time. Not sure the ref will have seen that in the heat of the moment, instead focusing on the studs on the foot. Reminded me a bit of the Stephens incident.

The Italian only changed direction in that final stride, because Young clattered into his leg.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The Italian only changed direction in that final stride, because Young clattered into his leg.

I didn't see that. If that's what the pen was given for and it was correct, no problem. But the VAR feed seemed to be focusing on the foot, slowing it down at the point of contact. If the pen was for Tarkowski's contact, then I don't think it's a pen, even if Young forced the Italian's foot into Tarkowski.

 

[Renegade1]

See you in the World Cup , oh sorry you are not going

Lol ! so original.Have you thought of a career in comedy?

After winning the world cup 4 times and being in 6 finals it's nice to give solo winners like
England a chance so we thought we would opt out of this one.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I didn't see that. If that's what the pen was given for and it was correct, no problem. But the VAR feed seemed to be focusing on the foot, slowing it down at the point of contact. If the pen was for Tarkowski's contact, then I don't think it's a pen, even if Young forced the Italian's foot into Tarkowski.

Sorry - not what I meant. Young’s challenge wasn’t a foul, but is the reason the player’s stride changed. Just correcting the suggestion that the Italian manufactured the contact.

 

[Renegade1]

Stop talking about the pen !! It's irrelevant ! The performance is what matters !!

Whilst we are on the subject of courrrrrrrse it was a pen !!! Enough !!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I switched on for the last half hour and was disappointed that England let the tempo drop right off, then combined that with a raft of substitutions. The equaliser was inevitable.

I thought it probably was a penalty but VAR for that is a joke.

And having witnessed a storming season from Lewis Dunk it is disappointing to see England ending up with Tarkowski, Walker and Dier as centrebacks. Maguire and Dunk is the future.

 

[lancyclaret]

When VAR is introduced to the Premier League, games are going to finish 5-5, 7-6 etc. if penalties are going to be awarded for a slight nudge at a corner or a player accidentally treading on another's foot.

Despite having a soft penalty awarded against him, I think Southgate will have been impressed by Tarkowski's debut especially as he was playing on his "wrong side". Ben Mee is Burnley's left-sided central defender.

He won't be going to the World Cup, but JT will get cap No 2 before 2018 is out.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Sorry - not what I meant. Young’s challenge wasn’t a foul, but is the reason the player’s stride changed. Just correcting the suggestion that the Italian manufactured the contact.

Oh. Then I'm just going to correct that I didn't mean to suggest he did it intentionally to produce contact! Just that his foot went out into Tarkowski's stride, however that occurred.

 

[maffew]

As much as I don't want to see VAR (I'd prefer the game to be more honest, and played in real time rather than be TV remote controlled), I think you're missing the point on several issues.

• The fact the Italians didn't appeal for the penalty is irrelevant. They, like the ref, evidently missed Tarkowski standing on Chiesa's foot

• They CAN use VAR for that, because the VAR ref is there to point out something that the on-pitch ref has clearly missed - in this instance, a possible penalty decision

• The main controversy (which you're saying VAR is supposed to stop) is whether it was a foul at all. Having reviewed it, the ref decided it was, having had the suggestion of that put to him by the VAR ref. In other words, it's highly likely the VAR ref thought it was a pen, and when he got his colleague to look, he agreed

• The fact that Tarkowski treading on Chiesa's foot was accidental (clearly it was) doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty. The notion of intent was taken out of the rules yonks ago. It's whether it was careless, reckless or with excessive force. I'd say it was careless. Chiesa was clearly looking for the pen, but sadly Tarkowski obliged him

Additionally, for me, there's no such thing as a 'soft penalty' - it was either a foul or it wasn't (or it was handball or it wasn't - though there is guidance offered to referees on that one; the mythical 'ball to hand' defence), and once it does cross the threshold of it being a foul in the opinion of the referee, then a penalty (or free-kick) is awarded.

Below (it's not to back up my argument and I by no means wear England tinted specs, I'm surprised I watched the game, it was just on really) probably means more clarification is needed on what it is and isnt meant for, cos I am happy to be educated. I do think VAR could and will work, but we're not ready yet. I dont believe that was a clear and obvious foul that the ref should have got right/wrong. It might have been a foul, it might have not, I thought that a degree of human error would be acceptable,
.

“I think the ruling is ‘clear and obvious’ and it’s not,” England boss Gareth Southgate told ITV afterwards.

It looks like James Tarkowski stands on him but it’s during the running process and he’s going down anyway. I think the referee had a good view already.
Tarkowski himself said it was “never a penalty”.

“I stood on his foot but I didn’t think a lot of it,” he told ITV.

Former England international Alan Shearer was among those to question the decision.

“Don’t talk to me about VAR!” he tweeted. “How on earth is that clear and obvious?”

Gary Lineker tweeted: “If VAR is going to turn us over, it’s better to happen now. A clear and obviously deserved victory taken away.”

 

[Petee]

Germans unbeaten in 22, Neymar out.

Not feeling it.

Hehehe

 

[LlcoolJ]

There's some seriously odd stuff going on on this thread. I don't like VAR at all in the way that it's been implemented in games I've seen previously.

But this was spot on. It was a penalty, it didn't take long for the decision. It was correct.

Other way round I bet most people complaining about it would be saying how great it is even though it's not.

I still don't want it in the World Cup as it's not been refined to anywhere near where it needs to be. But there we are.

 

[dangull]

Technically probably a penalty, but the type of incident that is hard to see and usually isn't given during a game without VAR.
Not a fan of constant stoppages to look at every incident at football. We all hate teams time wasting if we're behind in a game.
Seems to work quite well for sports like NFL and Rugby which is more stop and start and has more rules. Football is meant to be a free flowing game.

 

[LlcoolJ]

When VAR is introduced to the Premier League, games are going to finish 5-5, 7-6 etc. if penalties are going to be awarded for a slight nudge at a corner or a player accidentally treading on another's foot.

Despite having a soft penalty awarded against him, I think Southgate will have been impressed by Tarkowski's debut especially as he was playing on his "wrong side". Ben Mee is Burnley's left-sided central defender.

He won't be going to the World Cup, but JT will get cap No 2 before 2018 is out.

We don't care about Burnley btw.