[News] Energy bills to top £4200 at the start of next year

[DIFFBROOK]

You beat me to this. The recession will be inevitable. Taking money out of the economy that would otherwise be spent on the economy elsewhere will hit buisnesses hard.

The economy will tank unless its supported - with people having help with their energy bills. Short term that is the only answer. Medium term we really need to build up our own renewables and nuclear

It's not just those of us worried about the basics of heating and electric, the impact it will have on business has not really begun to happen yet inflation will hit over 20% a huge recession will hit. Meanwhile you have two twats running for PM who have no idea of the real world.

It will lead to massive protests as it should. Due to the complexities of not paying the utilities a better way would be if everyone stopped paying their council tax. That would have a direct action against the state.

Also the main utilities inc water should be re-nationalised and we and the Europeans need to come down on the USA regarding their stance with Iran before Russia and China get all investment there.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don’t know why you have quoted me other than to stir up trouble. In my post you have quoted I was responding to the predictions post Christmas not today’s announcement. I was also mainly commenting on the available fixed price tariffs. Our energy supplier Ovo has the same opinion about these as outlined in their e mail this morning ie variable rates with a cap are the best deals you can get. I don’t know why you trawl through past posts looking for who knows what. Please don’t draw me into another one of your score settling episodes. Perhaps you would find this whole message board thing a little easier if you saw it like Instagram rather than Hansard. It’s disposable, not ongoing feuding. Have a nice day.

To be fair, you were pointing out the over the top fixed tariffs, but you used the term scaremongering to describe the forecasts, so that was why I included it. It's sunny out and hope you have a good day too getting ready for tomorrow's match

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

God I'm ****ing terrified at what this means for small businesses, pubs and restaurants. It's going to be an effective lockdown after boxing today as it won't be worth anywhere opening. In the mean time the economy will hit the shitter and I feel certain to lose my job.

**** knows how my parents are going to cope with the bills either.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Does anyone else find it to be next to useless telling us how bills will be XXX more expensive over a year? I may live in a bedsit, you may live in a five bedroomed mansion with a swimming pool. How is anyone supposed to be able to know what the increase is likely to be to them personally with the way the scare mongering prices are being bandied about?

In context from today's FT, If the prices had gone up on other goods in line with energy.

33 quid for a pint of beer
28 for a coffee
102 for a packet of fags.

Winter is coming literally and metaphorically.

 

[danielson81]

Lets say you were on a variable tariff in 2020 paying 18p per kwh for Electric and 20p standing charge, say 4000 units a year = 720 + 73 = £793 a year, £66.08 a month

Fast forward to October 2022... 52p per kwh, 46p standing charge = £2,080 + £364.54 = £2444.54 a year , £203.71 a month

This is only electric, god to think the increase with gas thrown in!

God help us all, how will people afford this?

 

[Icy Gull]

I would have thought by now, most people who have been paying attention would have an idea what their bill is, percentage wise, in relation to the price capped 'average household bill' that was confirmed today (or 'scare mongered' depending on your viewpoint). Or, even simpler, take the percentage increase and apply it to your current annual bill

*sticksfingersinearsandhums*

Given I was on a gas rate of 0.255 per KwH until June 30 and my bill was pretty massive anyway I think I'll be splashing out on more jumpers

My wife really feels the cold and our daytime temp in the winter was set at 22. I'll take the hit rather than having my wife shiver to death though

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Not sure I feel that sorry for pensioners in big houses to be honest. Given house price rises, if most pensioners are down to just 2 of them living together, sell big house, live in smaller house, live comfortably off the balance or equity release funds? I would have thought all those pensioners who don't own their own home, don't have equity behind them, have limited access to income with the increased costs are the ones to feel sorry for who may well also have worked hard all their lives.

I feel sorry for pensioners who are living off a state pension and will have to choose between heating and eating this winter. I can't say I feel sorry for some others, one I spoke to walking the dog today on an index linked final salary scheme that kids today can only dream of in retirement worrying about how he was going to pay. Trouble is, that's exactly the type who is determining the next bell cheese PM.

 

[Bozza]

And people question why the Leeds game has not sold out.......

I wasn't questioning why the Leeds game has not sold out in this thread.

It wss the comparison with Newcastle, which did sell out which was also "holiday season", with the shadow of bad economic news hanging over us all.

I guess I'm surprised that Newcastle did sell out, but given it did, I'm now slightly surprised that the very next game hasn't.

But, as many others have pointed out on that thread, it is a bank holiday weekend and many folk will have other plans.

Of course. If I didn't have a season ticket I really don't think I'd be spending c£70 for tickets for me and my lad for tomorrow. I'd certainly be thinking "that money could be put to better use elsewhere/" But that wasn't my point, really...

 

[DudsFarm]

In some ways increases to fuel costs is a good thing, causing people to reduce consumption and emissions. But there has to be a level at which a minimum level should be affordable. This could be a cap (low) on the cost of heating the equivalent of a 1 bed flat - some kind of social tariff. Funded by a greater increase in the excess above the cap, along with tax on the excess profits of fuel producers. Nobody would freeze but people (like me) in 3 bed (or more) houses would either pay up or reduce usage.

 

[rippleman]

Money saving expert Martin Lewis has warned that people will die this winter because they can’t afford to heat their homes, unless the government provides more support with energy bills.

Lewis tells the Today programme that the new price cap, from 1 October, is 37% of the new state pension. It’s a even bigger proportion for those who retired earlier, and for those on universal credit.

Lewis says:

This is a catastrophe, plain and simple. Unaffordable.

Ofgem’s Jonathan Brearley has effectively said that the crisis is now ‘out of our hands, and beyond our power’ when he called for government intervention this morning

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Yes. I heard Brearley. Complete bollocks. It IS within Ofgem's control to set the cap and tell the profiteering energy companies "that's your lot, no more". Rather than protect the consumer as they state in their mission statement they are protecting the energy companies. Ofgem allowed the change to the cap so the energy companies can now whack the price up every 3 months rather than every six months. Ofgem has even admitted they took that step to stop some of the smaller energy companies from going bust.

No need to believe what I say. Read what a senior Ofgem executive said when she had the moral courage to resign.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62578614

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thr price cap is actually calculated in unit prices so you can compare with any other deals around.

The average annual cost quoted by the media is just an illustrative example for the headlines, so everyone can panic.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes. I heard Brearley. Complete bollocks. It IS within Ofgem's control to set the cap and tell the profiteering energy companies "that's your lot, no more". Rather than protect the consumer as they state in their mission statement they are protecting the energy companies. Ofgem allowed the change to the cap so the energy companies can now whack the price up every 3 months rather than every six months. Ofgem has even admitted they took that step to stop some of the smaller energy companies from going bust.

No need to believe what I say. Read what a senior Ofgem executive said when she had the moral courage to resign.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62578614

Energy suppliers are just middlemen. They don’t generate, own pipelines, drill etc. If the cap is frozen at its current level they will go bust because the market is structurally broken by lack of a requirement to hedge their price risk. This means they would have to buy energy from the market at one price and sell it to us at a much lower one. They would be better off declaring immediate bankruptcy and actually might be forced to as they would be insolvent. That’s the real failure of Ofgem and successive Governments. We are now where we are. To freeze the price cap now means having to fund it from taxation which means we will be paying for it for a generation rather than paying for it this winter. That is the proposal put forward by the energy suppliers and it is likely to happen.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Thr price cap is actually calculated in unit prices so you can compare with any other deals around.

The average annual cost quoted by the media is just an illustrative example for the headlines, so everyone can panic.

If they didn't use the average figure, what figure do you think they should use to stop people panicking ?

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes. I heard Brearley. Complete bollocks. It IS within Ofgem's control to set the cap and tell the profiteering energy companies "that's your lot, no more". Rather than protect the consumer as they state in their mission statement they are protecting the energy companies. Ofgem allowed the change to the cap so the energy companies can now whack the price up every 3 months rather than every six months. Ofgem has even admitted they took that step to stop some of the smaller energy companies from going bust.

No need to believe what I say. Read what a senior Ofgem executive said when she had the moral courage to resign.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62578614

European energy prices have risen 6x in past year. regulator has soften this to about 2x in UK so far. if you say "thats your lot" to the producers, they dont sell you any gas because there are plenty of other buyers. we have policies to restrict the gas market, i dont see anyone asking for those policies to be reversed.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Zahawi saying that all options on solutions for both households and businesses are being put together now ready for Sept 5th. I would imagine that a decision will be made shortly thereafter and I very much doubt that the cap figures published today will actually come into effect. It would be nice to have some sort of assurance on that though obviously, but the fact that energy suppliers are actively proposing solutions gives me hope that they will do something regardless - they have to as the amount of defaults they will face will be catastrophic.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I feel sorry for pensioners who are living off a state pension and will have to choose between heating and eating this winter. I can't say I feel sorry for some others, one I spoke to walking the dog today on an index linked final salary scheme that kids today can only dream of in retirement worrying about how he was going to pay. Trouble is, that's exactly the type who is determining the next bell cheese PM.

Pension envy is not a nice trait. Many people, myself included, who were fortunate enough to have index linked final salary pensions, also had their working salary held back because the pension was part of the overall package. Then they were capped to a smaller salary than actually earned, then had other parts of the scheme reduced. Plus many schemes, again like mine, only pay a minimum statutory uplift rather than full index linking, as below:

. There are statutory minimum requirements on them to:

Index pensions in payment in line with inflation, capped at 5% for benefits accruing from service between April 1997 and April 2005, and at 2.5% for benefits accruing from April 2005 – known as Limited Price Indexation (LPI) (Pensions Act 1995, s51);

I'm not going to find my bill's easily affordable either. But yes, I deliberately chose a job with a pension when I started work in the 70's. I'll be able to manage ok, but people on index linked pensions will also worry about how they are going to pay. Nonetheless, I look at the size of the bills and it's not a matter of how some will pay, it's a fact that they won't be able to and the Government has a duty to find a solution. It took 60 years to pay off the war debt and if it takes another 60 years to pay off an energy crisis debt, then so be it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Zahawi saying that all options on solutions for both households and businesses are being put together now ready for Sept 5th. I would imagine that a decision will be made shortly thereafter and I very much doubt that the cap figures published today will actually come into effect. It would be nice to have some sort of assurance on that though obviously, but the fact that energy suppliers are actively proposing solutions gives me hope that they will do something regardless - they have to as the amount of defaults they will face will be catastrophic.

the industry led tariff control plan (whatever its called) is the sensible option. once Truss/Sunak have been sat in a room and explained it also reduces inflation, they'll sign up to it. there'll be large numbers assigned to the cost which we will pay over time, and expect calls for it to cover some business and industry, dont see another way. handing out cash or tax cuts just makes everything worse.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

the industry led tariff control plan (whatever its called) is the sensible option. once Truss/Sunak have been sat in a room and explained it also reduces inflation, they'll sign up to it. there'll be large numbers assigned to the cost which we will pay over time, and expect calls for it to cover some business and industry, dont see another way. handing out cash or tax cuts just makes everything worse.

But irrespective of anything else that is just what Truss plans to do?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Pension envy is not a nice trait. Many people, myself included, who were fortunate enough to have index linked final salary pensions, also had their working salary held back because the pension was part of the overall package. Then they were capped to a smaller salary than actually earned, then had other parts of the scheme reduced. Plus many schemes, again like mine, only pay a minimum statutory uplift rather than full index linking, as below:

. There are statutory minimum requirements on them to:

Index pensions in payment in line with inflation, capped at 5% for benefits accruing from service between April 1997 and April 2005, and at 2.5% for benefits accruing from April 2005 – known as Limited Price Indexation (LPI) (Pensions Act 1995, s51);

I'm not going to find my bill's easily affordable either. But yes, I deliberately chose a job with a pension when I started work in the 70's. I'll be able to manage ok, but people on index linked pensions will also worry about how they are going to pay. Nonetheless, I look at the size of the bills and it's not a matter of how some will pay, it's a fact that they won't be able to and the Government has a duty to find a solution. It took 60 years to pay off the war debt and if it takes another 60 years to pay off an energy crisis debt, then so be it.

There are people out there (not aiming this at you more my dog walking "friend" ) who retired early, are lucky enough to have final salary pensions, had free uni, free prescriptions and cheap house prices in lovely areas who now expect everyone else to pick up the tab beacuse they "worked hard" Forgive me if I don't get my violin out and expect them to pay more as well. Everyone will fill the pinch but particularly those at the lower end of the scale pensioners and the young alike.

If nothing is done, poor people will eat or heat, small business will be wiped out (local chippies are already shutting round my way) and there will be riots every weekend whilst we plunge into recession. 1995 to pre pandemic will be looked back on as halcyon years - as well as an inquest into why we didn't fix the roof when the sun shone - with the worst possible people in charge at the worst possible time coming decided by the worst possible people. Happy days.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

But irrespective of anything else that is just what Truss plans to do?

A state subsidised unit price cap- for domestic and commercial usage- does seem the mostly logical short term solution. Hopefully announced ASAP to minimise turmoil in the interim.