[News] Energy bills to top £4200 at the start of next year

[Neville's Breakfast]

if you can't control your position in the global market it means you don't really have independence you do what others want or make you do.

Under that criteria India isn’t an independent country.

 

[Bodian]

I am not debating BREXIT it's done, I am just highlighting that getting back control means we need to be in control of our commanding heights of industry.

Why would we need to be tied to global prices if we were self-sufficient?

Regards Norway , as part of the EU they should be helping their co-members in times of strife.

The debate now is not about Remain or Leave its about building a fair society in this country where poor people are not going to freeze this winter and putting profit first means that this is always likely to happen.

Norway is not part of the EU.

 

[Bodian]

It's not just that electricity prices are tied to the price of gas, there is also something I read in Private Eye recently about the tariff having to be at the amount that it would cost the energy suppliers to buy power at the maximum cost. All electricity comes through the National Grid, so none of us can actually control where the source of our electricity comes from. When demand is higher than available supply, the grid tops up the supply by buying more (often generated by gas). And because the demand is high, the cost of those additional units is high. And it is at that cost that the tariffs are generally set, not the long-term average cost.

 

[pb21]

[tweet]1562019059570556929[/tweet]

 

[Weststander]

It's not just that electricity prices are tied to the price of gas, there is also something I read in Private Eye recently about the tariff having to be at the amount that it would cost the energy suppliers to buy power at the maximum cost. All electricity comes through the National Grid, so none of us can actually control where the source of our electricity comes from. When demand is higher than available supply, the grid tops up the supply by buying more (often generated by gas). And because the demand is high, the cost of those additional units is high. And it is at that cost that the tariffs are generally set, not the long-term average cost.

Reading up, this is the same in the EU, where “European electricity market rules, which force producers to sell their energy at the price of the most expensive technology — currently gas-fired power stations”.

Spain and Portugal have negotiated with the EU an exit from the system, they felt it was unfair, as they do import gas from Russia.

 

[TomandJerry]

Ministers could face an additional £23bn price tag for covering extra household energy costs of £900 this autumn, rising to £90bn next year, a new paper by the Institute for Government has found.

The paper, looking at the options for Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak in No 10, also warned the government should plan for prolonged rises in energy bills by going a lot further in making public appeals to use less gas – for example by informing consumers about the cost savings from turning down thermostats – and in committing to building more energy efficient homes to help protect consumers.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Wardy's twin]

Norway is not part of the EU.

Hey since when have facts become part of a debate

 

[Icy Gull]

Ministers could face an additional £23bn price tag for covering extra household energy costs of £900 this autumn, rising to £90bn next year, a new paper by the Institute for Government has found.

The paper, looking at the options for Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak in No 10, also warned the government should plan for prolonged rises in energy bills by going a lot further in making public appeals to use less gas – for example by informing consumers about the cost savings from turning down thermostats – and in committing to building more energy efficient homes to help protect consumers.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

You'd have to be brain dead to need telling that turning things off or down is the way to go with energy prices going mental surely?

 

[Bodian]

You'd have to be brain dead to need telling that turning things off or down is the way to go with energy prices going mental surely?

Part of this though is that many folk have been turning things off/down to save energy for a long while. There reaches a point where you can't do so any further without causing health problems. My father-in-law is a good case in point - he only sets his thermostat for 15-16 degrees anyway, and now he's turned it down further, and doesn't open the curtains on some days to 'keep the heat in'. So, he then suffers from light deprivation and so on. He's also taken to not cooking to save energy costs. He actually isn't struggling financially, and could afford the extra bills, but he's of the generation and age where he is convinced he has no money and has to save every penny 'for a rainy day'. I've tried explaining that this is the 'rainy day'! He won't be the only one who can't really turn things down or turn things off more than he is already doing.

 

[Icy Gull]

Part of this though is that many folk have been turning things off/down to save energy for a long while. There reaches a point where you can't do so any further without causing health problems. My father-in-law is a good case in point - he only sets his thermostat for 15-16 degrees anyway, and now he's turned it down further, and doesn't open the curtains on some days to 'keep the heat in'. So, he then suffers from light deprivation and so on. He's also taken to not cooking to save energy costs. He actually isn't struggling financially, and could afford the extra bills, but he's of the generation and age where he is convinced he has no money and has to save every penny 'for a rainy day'. I've tried explaining that this is the 'rainy day'! He won't be the only one who can't really turn things down or turn things off more than he is already doing.

That's sad

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1562923188039946240[/tweet]

 

[Weststander]

[tweet]1562923188039946240[/tweet]

Newsnight’s debate tonight said Labour’s proposals would save households £1k off of £4,266.

Shirley, that’s not enough, too?

 

[beorhthelm]

[tweet]1562923188039946240[/tweet]

where are the details of the plans being compared, and is this accounting for the existing funds coming through? will all change in the next two weeks.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Simplest thing is to cap the rate - eg at what it is now. People are still incentivised to use less energy to save money. Avoids having to hand any cash out to help people pay the crazy rates we are moving to.

Government subsides the rest as a short term measure and the long term solution is to re-think the entire system.

Would what government has done with the ‘nationalised’ rail franchises work? Ie you pay private companies to run these things but the payment is fixed, rather than giving them the objective of making maximum profit for shareholders. Then government could take more control over the price and would need to subside less.

Also increase domestic production over time to minimise involvement in the costs of the global market.

At the end of the day energy is a necessity not a luxury and the system should be set up to keep it at an affordable rate.

 

[bluenitsuj]

BREAKING: @Ofgem says the energy price cap'll rise an avg 80% on 1 Oct, taking typical bills from £1,971/yr to £3,549/yr.

 

[The Clamp]

There is only one way to stop this utter lunacy; stop paying the bills. No politician, not Sunak, not Starmer and certainly not the mentally defective Liz Truss is going to help us. They do not care. Direct action is what is needed. If people in the U.K. want change they need to take to the streets and demand it. Waiting for our woeful “democratic”’process to change anything is not going to work.

 

[Icy Gull]

Looks like it has gone up by the predicted 80%


Electricity
£0.28 per kWh to 01 October

Daily standing charge: £0.45 from 01 October
£0.52 per kWh

Daily standing charge: £0.46 until 01 October
Gas
£0.07 per kWh

Daily standing charge: £0.27 from 01 October
£0.15 per kWh

Daily standing charge: £0.28

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

A lot of places are going bust.

Furlough/Loans turned out to completely pointless really for some sectors as will be taken out anyway.

 

[Berty23]

At some point soon the penny is going to drop in wider society among people who “find the news boring so ignore it” and things feel like they could get messy. By the end of the winter the cost for pre payment looks set to be about 600 quid a month. That is 20 quid a day. The majority of People of prepayment meters will simply not have that sort of cash. This winter is going to be carnage and I don’t think the majority of people in society have realised this just yet.

When people can’t afford their bills they certainly won’t be spending on luxuries like eating out etc so those companies hit by the massive non capped energy costs will be screwed.

If the baby boomer generation start moaning about the cost then we might see some action. Maybe some smart young people will retort “just lose the mobile phone and coffee like we were supposed to so we could save 700 quid a month for a deposit for a house”

 

[beorhthelm]

yesturday gas prices, new highs

https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1562771407313915905/photo/1