[Misc] Electric Cars

[swindonseagull]

Taken the plunge and ordered a i4 through our work salary sacrifice scheme.
Car was built in June pre i4 facelift so got a very good deal with the monthly outlay £60 more than our Tiguan that’s going back as the lease has finished. Included maintenance, insurance, free home charger and no deposit

Looking at the electric tariff I’m moving onto, I will be able to charge fully c340 miles for £7 rather than the £75 it cost me to fill up last weekend. I make the money back on one tank effectively

Car is arriving next week and have a OhMe charger being installed this Friday.

So far so good but I need to educate myself on the various public chargers and access requirements. It seems some require membership need dedicated rfids cards to access, but assume you can use a standard debit or credit card on most other than the Tesla super chargers?

Can anyone point me in the right direction of a decent public charging guide?

Download Zapmap and electroverse if you with Octopus

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Download Zapmap and electroverse if you with Octopus

Ordered the card through the app
Probably going to stay with British Gas as their EV tariff is fixed, whereas from what I can see the Octopus Intelligence tariff is variable and likely to go up at the next review

 

[Audax]

Ordered the card through the app
Probably going to stay with British Gas as their EV tariff is fixed, whereas from what I can see the Octopus Intelligence tariff is variable and likely to go up at the next review

If you're on fixed, probably worth sticking with it until the fix expires and then reviewing again. Octopus have a few different tariffs for EV owners, they're definitely worth looking at as from my experience their support is very good, and they don't take the p*** - for example not routinely charging the full standing charge that Ofgem sets and instead keeping it a little lower.

 

[Audax]

Battery degradation is proving to be a lot less of a problem than first thought many years ago.

Yeah, so true. Adding a data point from personal experience yesterday.

My Zoe will be 4 years old in September. As of last night, it's done around 26500 miles. Claimed range at new was up to 245 miles from the 52kWh battery. So to achieve 245 miles you'd need to be hitting 4.7 miles per kWh.

So yesterday morning I jumped in the Zoe with full battery. Had a long trip to do, so a good opportunity to see where it was at. Trip was A22, M25 from J6 to J22, then north to near Letchworth. Then home again. 106 miles there, a little more on the way back due to dropping off some work colleagues causing detours.

Got home having done 215.5 miles. 3% battery left, dash reporting around 12 miles remaining range (in reality that'll have been somewhere between 11.5 and 12.4 due to rounding) and that I'd achieved 4.7 miles/kWh (again, that will be rounded, most likely up as it'd been 4.6 coming through East Grinstead and Forest Row). Let's ignore the rounding errors ... my numbers from yesterday suggest I've now got approximately 48.4kWh usable battery capacity, just under 7% degradation. That'll be worst case scenario IMO given I believe that 4.7m/kWh figure is rounded up.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

If you're on fixed, probably worth sticking with it until the fix expires and then reviewing again. Octopus have a few different tariffs for EV owners, they're definitely worth looking at as from my experience their support is very good, and they don't take the p*** - for example not routinely charging the full standing charge that Ofgem sets and instead keeping it a little lower.

Will keep a look out - I scrolled through their tariffs yesterday to see if there was a fix. I’m currently with BG on a. 2 year fix so it’s the exit fees that are the factor, which do not apply if I switch to a BG EV tariff

I’ll need to do the sums as the EV tariff is 4 pence per KWH higher than my fix rate vs how often I will need to charge car (once a week max normally), so may not actually be worth moving to EV tariff when the standard electric cost is considered noting we both WFH and are doing 15KWH a day - I think, will check)

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

If you're on fixed, probably worth sticking with it until the fix expires and then reviewing again. Octopus have a few different tariffs for EV owners, they're definitely worth looking at as from my experience their support is very good, and they don't take the p*** - for example not routinely charging the full standing charge that Ofgem sets and instead keeping it a little lower.

Did the sums earlier on the BG fixed vs British Gas EV fixed, based on c2 charges a month and normal electric spend. It works out £20 a month cheaper overall from standard (the peak rate on ev is higher) or £140 a month saved vs petrol

 

[Audax]

My Zoe will be 4 years old in September.

And I'll be saying goodbye in just over 2 weeks time. Company I work for finally decided to let us do salary sacrifice for EV's, so after having extended the contract from 4 years to 5 years end of last year, I've now shortened it to 4 years + 2 months and then put in an early termination (to avoid the absolutely ridiculous sums of money insurers want for short-term...). Cost me a few pennies, and we'll be a car short for a month, but mid-October a shiny new long-range ID3 will be arriving.

Someone somewhere is going to be picking up a very suitable first-time EV from the second hand market, I'm going to miss it (never thought I'd say that about a Renault Zoe!)

 

[Badger]

Canada has followed the US in imposing a 100% tariff on Chinese EV imports. This seems incredibly short sighted and will only make EVs more expensive here.

 

[nicko31]

Canada has followed the US in imposing a 100% tariff on Chinese EV imports. This seems incredibly short sighted and will only make EVs more expensive here.

Its all rather silly. Chinese makers will are setting up manufacturing in Mexico to access the US and in Europe they are building plants in Turkey and Hungary.

Reality is here, need to face up to the competition

 

[chickens]

Canada has followed the US in imposing a 100% tariff on Chinese EV imports. This seems incredibly short sighted and will only make EVs more expensive here.

We can’t have it both ways. We exported all our manufacturing, regardless of industry, across to China decades ago, and were perfectly happy.

Now that they’ve seen all our IP and learnt to make it for themselves, they’re exporting it back to us for less than it costs us to make it for ourselves.

At present America is very much flexing its muscles, and we (among others) are going to accept it like a good little colony. (I appreciate we haven’t yet, but it’s coming)

I bet Canada isn’t applying any additional tariffs on US EV imports. I do get it, Chinese industry is state-subsidised to a higher degree than most Western nations, but still, when you set out to deliberately target one nation’s products, you are effectively opening hostilities. And I haven’t seen a lot of factories being built over here to re-onshore the jobs and production facilities. We still want to outsource the pollution and mess of actually making things elsewhere.

 

[Badger]

We can’t have it both ways. We exported all our manufacturing, regardless of industry, across to China decades ago, and were perfectly happy.

Now that they’ve seen all our IP and learnt to make it for themselves, they’re exporting it back to us for less than it costs us to make it for ourselves.

At present America is very much flexing its muscles, and we (among others) are going to accept it like a good little colony. (I appreciate we haven’t yet, but it’s coming)

I bet Canada isn’t applying any additional tariffs on US EV imports. I do get it, Chinese industry is state-subsidised to a higher degree than most Western nations, but still, when you set out to deliberately target one nation’s products, you are effectively opening hostilities. And I haven’t seen a lot of factories being built over here to re-onshore the jobs and production facilities. We still want to outsource the pollution and mess of actually making things elsewhere.

There's a trade agreement between the US, Mexico and Canada which covers most goods and services. Given the vast majority of exports from Canada end up in the US, it would be very unwise to impose tariffs on US goods!

Canada is also giving billions of tax dollars to VW to open a factory to produce EV batteries in Ontario. I'm sure it will create jobs but I'm not sure how many and it doesn't seem like a good way to spend public money.

What we need is a competitive market. Car prices have been going through the roof in recent years because the manufacturers are only offering big cars, fully-loaded with luxuries. You can't buy a cheap car in North America anymore. This decision on Chinese EVs only adds to that. Hyundai and KIA are the only non-luxury options for EVs here and they're not cheap either. Without the competition, there's no incentive to offer cheap EVs.

 

[chickens]

There's a trade agreement between the US, Mexico and Canada which covers most goods and services. Given the vast majority of exports from Canada end up in the US, it would be very unwise to impose tariffs on US goods!

Canada is also giving billions of tax dollars to VW to open a factory to produce EV batteries in Ontario. I'm sure it will create jobs but I'm not sure how many and it doesn't seem like a good way to spend public money.

What we need is a competitive market. Car prices have been going through the roof in recent years because the manufacturers are only offering big cars, fully-loaded with luxuries. You can't buy a cheap car in North America anymore. This decision on Chinese EVs only adds to that. Hyundai and KIA are the only non-luxury options for EVs here and they're not cheap either. Without the competition, there's no incentive to offer cheap EVs.

I hear what you’re saying with regard to the “better ways to spend public money” bit, but actually at least that means that there will be people in Canada with EV battery knowledge, who may well go on and start their own businesses related to battery technology.

I’d rather that than the UK approach of having no expertise, and just buying the end product. It’s another growth industry that we’ll end up locked out of due to a lack of investment in ourselves and our young. I’d personally be more than happy with a bit of state subsidy that got us involved with these technologies.

 

[Badger]

I hear what you’re saying with regard to the “better ways to spend public money” bit, but actually at least that means that there will be people in Canada with EV battery knowledge, who may well go on and start their own businesses related to battery technology.

I’d rather that than the UK approach of having no expertise, and just buying the end product. It’s another growth industry that we’ll end up locked out of due to a lack of investment in ourselves and our young. I’d personally be more than happy with a bit of state subsidy that got us involved with these technologies.

I'm not sure about that. It looks like the UK is doing a similar thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...owner-confirms-4bn-somerset-gigafactory-plans
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...aker-in-talks-to-invest-in-new-uk-gigafactory

The difference being the amount being subsidised. The UK will be spending "hunderds of millions" in subsidies whereas Canada is spending over CA$16bn on the VW plant.

 

[Audax]

Car prices have been going through the roof in recent years because the manufacturers are only offering big cars, fully-loaded with luxuries.

Now you've gone and reminded me of something about that ID3 I've ordered. It's the higher spec model. Why? Because it was (slightly) cheaper on salary sacrifice than the standard model.

 

[raymondo]

We can’t have it both ways. We exported all our manufacturing, regardless of industry, across to China decades ago, and were perfectly happy.

Now that they’ve seen all our IP and learnt to make it for themselves, they’re exporting it back to us for less than it costs us to make it for ourselves.

At present America is very much flexing its muscles, and we (among others) are going to accept it like a good little colony. (I appreciate we haven’t yet, but it’s coming)

I bet Canada isn’t applying any additional tariffs on US EV imports. I do get it, Chinese industry is state-subsidised to a higher degree than most Western nations, but still, when you set out to deliberately target one nation’s products, you are effectively opening hostilities. And I haven’t seen a lot of factories being built over here to re-onshore the jobs and production facilities. We still want to outsource the pollution and mess of actually making things elsewhere.

I read that BYD were planning to open a factory in UK soon...but unsure if that's still happening

 

[chickens]

I'm not sure about that. It looks like the UK is doing a similar thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...owner-confirms-4bn-somerset-gigafactory-plans
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...aker-in-talks-to-invest-in-new-uk-gigafactory

The difference being the amount being subsidised. The UK will be spending "hunderds of millions" in subsidies whereas Canada is spending over CA$16bn on the VW plant.

That is interesting isn’t it? I’d somehow missed the news of that. There was a previous attempt at getting us involved that immediately folded and sold all its assets to an Australian Private Equity firm (I think, though may have been elsewhere)

Glad to see we’re getting some involvement, we desperately need some genuine investment rather than just selling off any successful businesses that we do have.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

I took delivery my of my Renault Scenic a few weeks ago. It’s more like a computer on wheels than a car, I’m still working it out.

It’s very spacious, drives well, Apple CarPlay integration is good, and the Google car software also works well. I’ve done a few longer trips this week and, in ECO mode, it delivers better than the advertised 625km range.

Driver assist is good, makes cruising on motorways relaxing, even through stop-start sections in roadworks.

 

[beorhthelm]

Canada has followed the US in imposing a 100% tariff on Chinese EV imports. This seems incredibly short sighted and will only make EVs more expensive here.

obviously want to support and encourage their car making industry.

oh, and their neighbour's large car making industry.

 

[vegster]

I don't think I will ever be able to own one as the cost is far too prohibitive. Add to that the nearest charging point is 600 yards away and there is no chance of charging at home as I don't have a driveway and live in a narrow street. I will have to wait til they cost about £5K second hand.. 20 years ?

 

[chickens]

I read that BYD were planning to open a factory in UK soon...but unsure if that's still happening

Hope so. I’d take foreign investment over none at all, though would obviously prefer it if we were taking a lead rather than playing catch up.

At least if we’ve people who understand the tech, we have a skill base to start from, my initial fear was that we remain “end users” of the technology, with no real understanding of it.