[Misc] Electric Cars

[GOM]

That sounds like what a lot of folk say, and I was one of them for a while, who commute up from the coast to London every day.

"No, I don't mind all the time on the train - I get to read books and watch Netflix"

It's utter bollocks - I wouldn't ordinarily choose to spend 90 minutes early in the morning, and the same in the early evening, reading and watching Netflix.

On longer drives, I wouldn't choose to spend 30-45 minutes (or whatever it takes) having a wee - I just want to get where I'm going. I may not need a wee at all or I'll need to go later on, not when the cat needs to be charged.

But maybe the rest of your post is correct and I'm overstating that occasional inconvenience, and I just suck it up. Regardless. it's not an imminent decision for me, so one for thought later on.

Maybe with age I've become a little bit more leisurely in my attitudes and despite wanting to get there I enjoy a break somewhere on a 200/300 mile journey whether in an ICE vehicle or an EV. This is mainly not due to the distance but the time it takes to get anywhere in this country. Average speeds I've found to be only around 50-55mph and I travel by motorway/'fast roads' from within a few miles of home to virtually anywhere in England. So quite happy to take a 30 minute break. no longer required, every 4 hours.

No maybe whatsoever about the rest of the post being true, I'm not inclined to lie to you but day to day my running costs fuel wise are approx 2p mile charging from home. It doesn't matter that occasionally I may have to pay 'petrol' prices while in far flung parts of the kingdom.

I agree regards the Netflix comment in the morning comment, I wouldn't choose to do that either if I were sat at home but if you've got to make the journey day after day after day I guess anything to break the boredom. I used to listen to my audiobooks on my daily bus commute.

 

[dazzer6666]

Food for thought maybe: In nearly 4 years, and 26k miles under the wheels, I've not once plugged my Zoe into a paid charger. Back when Tesco allowed free charging on their 7.5kwh rate I used those a few times, but only when I was parking in the Tesco anyway.

Beyond that, all of my charging has either been done at home or at the office. The office commute is 65 miles each way. I've only twice in all that time had genuine range anxiety ... both times through my own errors. First time was a few months after getting it: took it to the office in winter, forgot to turn off the scheduled charging and therefore got no charge, and the trip home was via a detour work event. Solved that particular problem by using the home charger smart controls to schedule charges at home and turned off the in-car scheduler. Second time was more recently, knew I had a longer trip than normal (up to Watford) but forgot to top up over night, so left home without full battery. GPS then chose to take a longer route than I'd expected. With that one, got home with about 5 miles range left ... but I could have stopped along the way for a quicky top up if needed. Instead I moderated my driving more than usual (more lift and coast etc) and it was fine in the end.

I've actually had range anxiety more frequently on my ICE motorcycle than in the EV.

It's very much down to personal circumstances - if you don't do long journeys I can absolutely see the attraction. However, I'll drive to several away games (for example) every season where I would have to stop on the way back to recharge any EV. The return journey after most aways is simply one of getting home as quickly as (legally) possible - the homeward stop is usually for a quick pee and to grab some on-the-go food. There are often queues at the chargers (and they're expensive) - waiting 45 mins (at least, potentially much more) would do my head in.

 

[Audax]

It's very much down to personal circumstances - if you don't do long journeys I can absolutely see the attraction. However, I'll drive to several away games (for example) every season where I would have to stop on the way back to recharge any EV. The return journey after most aways is simply one of getting home as quickly as (legally) possible - the homeward stop is usually for a quick pee and to grab some on-the-go food. There are often queues at the chargers (and they're expensive) - waiting 45 mins (at least, potentially much more) would do my head in.

Won't be too long until range / charging times and infrastructure to support charging better will be in place though. If I'm honest, at the moment EVs are still in the "early adopter" phase. Tech is still going through rapid R&D progress cycles and we're yet to see a clear winner when it comes to "recharging on the go". While Rapid Chargers have been the go-to in the UK so far, challenger brands such as NIO are planning to enter the UK and bring with them rapid battery-swap tech (maybe next year).

 

[Flounce]

Won't be too long until range / charging times and infrastructure to support charging better will be in place though. If I'm honest, at the moment EVs are still in the "early adopter" phase. Tech is still going through rapid R&D progress cycles and we're yet to see a clear winner when it comes to "recharging on the go". While Rapid Chargers have been the go-to in the UK so far, challenger brands such as NIO are planning to enter the UK and bring with them rapid battery-swap tech (maybe next year).

Only posting from magazine and Youtube videos I’ve seen with no real knowledge, but it seems the drop off in prices from new to second hand is way more than ICE cars. Is this true or is it just on high end models like Porsche Taycans? Or is it just anti EV journalists and Youtubers?

If true you may be saving the planet by emptying your wallet.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It's very much down to personal circumstances - if you don't do long journeys I can absolutely see the attraction. However, I'll drive to several away games (for example) every season where I would have to stop on the way back to recharge any EV. The return journey after most aways is simply one of getting home as quickly as (legally) possible - the homeward stop is usually for a quick pee and to grab some on-the-go food. There are often queues at the chargers (and they're expensive) - waiting 45 mins (at least, potentially much more) would do my head in.

Get the right charger and car combo and you can add 200ish miles in way less than 45 mins, but I totally take your point. The infrastructure, technology and cost aren't ideal at the moment, but it's an industry in its infancy.

One 'solution' to the situation you describe is sticking the car on charge where you park for the game. Not widely available, but the likes of YourParkingSpace are introducing charging as an add-on.

The EV life clearly is not for everyone - and I'd never claim it is (unlike some) - but when it works, it's great!

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

A couple of quite significant things to note:

-Toyota have a solid state battery which they are about to unleash on the EV market that will initially have a 745 mile range going up to >900 miles. Tesla fighting (struggling) to keep up with their 4680 battery.

-Rapid charging seriously reduces the lifespan of EV batteries. Li-Ion batteries appreciate trickle charging (slow charge).


TNBA

TTF

 

[Blue3]

Wasn't the fastest time up the hill at Goodwood an EV?

It's all personal, like clothes and food. . . . We all have different taste. . . .

I did have a discussion with an engineer boffin/friend about electrifying a classic but retaining its gearbox so you could 'drive' it.

most modern petrol cars have semi auto gearboxes now . . . Like our Alfas. . . . . . . . All the modern scooters are auto, as are many bikes, or semi auto . . .

One must keep an old nail or two in the shed, just in case.

Was at Goodwood today and they had these electric trials that could be ridden around a little grass track very weird watching these bikes in complete silence no smell it really not the same

 

[zefarelly]

Was at Goodwood today and they had these electric trials that could be ridden around a little grass track very weird watching these bikes in complete silence no smell it really not the same

I'm sure I could make a Castrol R or synthetic 2 stroke smell generator . . .when I have to convert a Lambretta to ride into town

noise should be easy enough.

Zef Jr went and said a lot of the elctric stuff was far from exciting

 

[chip]

Bloody festival of speed, traffic queing outside my house this morning. Years ago I was involved in the GreenPower Electric challenge. Very odd watching a silent race around the circuit, but the youngsters competing enjoyed it.

 

[chickens]

I remain in favour of electric cars, I own one, however they do currently rely on you being able to charge at home to be cost-effective.

If you can’t, charging at public fast chargers increases the cost by a multiple of 10, which is quite the markup.

In short, if you have a driveway/garage and your regular daily drive is less than 200 miles a day, you’d be stupid to not have an electric car.

If you don’t have a place to put a home charger and/or you drive more than 200 miles a day then electric cars are not currently for you.

Finally, I feel EV manufacturers are missing a trick by lumping the cost of the battery in with the car. I would personally prefer to own the car, and lease the battery. Renault used to do this, but have apparently stopped, which is annoying.

 

[Bozza]

I remain in favour of electric cars, I own one, however they do currently rely on you being able to charge at home to be cost-effective.

If you can’t, charging at public fast chargers increases the cost by a multiple of 10, which is quite the markup.

In short, if you have a driveway/garage and your regular daily drive is less than 200 miles a day, you’d be stupid to not have an electric car.

You've just described us, although we drive far fewer than 200 miles a day - I'd say we cover about 15 miles most days.

I'm going to keep running our aged 100k+ miles Honda Civic. It's still reliable and relatively good on fuel. And, from what I understand, it's good ecological sense to keep running a car, within reason, as most of the "harm" is done in the initial manufacture of the vehicle.

But I think your last line is a bit unfair to those who struggle to buy a car of any kind, as there is a premium attached to EVs. Just browsing the cheaper end of the market on Autotrader and it's exclusively old Leafs and Zoes. I have no idea of the pitfalls of buying an EV of that age.

Even if I start my search at £5k, the cars are the best part of 10 years old. Is battery health still likely to be good and remain so for, say, five years?

 

[schmunk]

Only posting from magazine and Youtube videos I’ve seen with no real knowledge, but it seems the drop off in prices from new to second hand is way more than ICE cars. Is this true or is it just on high end models like Porsche Taycans? Or is it just anti EV journalists and Youtubers?

If true you may be saving the planet by emptying your wallet.

VW Brighton currently have an ID.Buzz for sale at £40k - it's a December 2022 car with <3k miles - new price over £60k.

That's a 1/3 price drop in 18 months.

Used 2022 Volkswagen ID. BUZZ ID. Buzz Life SWB 77kWh Pro 204PS Automatic £40,791 2,900 miles - Blue | Volkswagen Brighton | Caffyns

Buy a used 2022 Blue Volkswagen ID. BUZZ ID. Buzz Life SWB 77kWh Pro 204PS Automatic with 2,900 miles on the clock for £40,791 from Caffyns at Volkswagen Brighton.

www.caffyns.co.uk

 

[dazzer6666]

Get the right charger and car combo and you can add 200ish miles in way less than 45 mins, but I totally take your point. The infrastructure, technology and cost aren't ideal at the moment, but it's an industry in its infancy.

One 'solution' to the situation you describe is sticking the car on charge where you park for the game. Not widely available, but the likes of YourParkingSpace are introducing charging as an add-on.

The EV life clearly is not for everyone - and I'd never claim it is (unlike some) - but when it works, it's great!

The obvious answer for us should be to replace Mrs D’s very old runaround (we need to do this soon) with an EV and use that for all our short journeys……but I can’t see how spending upwards of £30k makes sense to do 1-2000 miles a year, and I’m reluctant to buy an older EV given the battery deterioration over time So it’ll probably be another ICE.

 

[carlzeiss]

You've just described us, although we drive far fewer than 200 miles a day - I'd say we cover about 15 miles most days.

I'm going to keep running our aged 100k+ miles Honda Civic. It's still reliable and relatively good on fuel. And, from what I understand, it's good ecological sense to keep running a car, within reason, as most of the "harm" is done in the initial manufacture of the vehicle.

But I think your last line is a bit unfair to those who struggle to buy a car of any kind, as there is a premium attached to EVs. Just browsing the cheaper end of the market on Autotrader and it's exclusively old Leafs and Zoes. I have no idea of the pitfalls of buying an EV of that age.

Even if I start my search at £5k, the cars are the best part of 10 years old. Is battery health still likely to be good and remain so for, say, five years?

 

[Marshy]

i was thinking about an electric car, and 2 very good friends who are fireman said you are not buying one Col.

That was all the advice i needed.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The obvious answer for us should be to replace Mrs D’s very old runaround (we need to do this soon) with an EV and use that for all our short journeys……but I can’t see how spending upwards of £30k makes sense to do 1-2000 miles a year, and I’m reluctant to buy an older EV given the battery deterioration over time So it’ll probably be another ICE.

Dacia Spring is £16k new - and there are loads of new cheaper EVs coming. Or pay monthly for the same as ICE in some cases.

Not specifically for you or Mrs D, but plenty of options out there. Or, on that mileage, just rent a car when she needs it (or get taxis) because that would probably be cheaper!

 

[Bozza]

Thanks.

Other than carting the dog about, something like that would cover most of our driving needs.

 

[dazzer6666]

Dacia Spring is £16k new - and there are loads of new cheaper EVs coming. Or pay monthly for the same as ICE in some cases.

Not specifically for you or Mrs D, but plenty of options out there. Or, on that mileage, just rent a car when she needs it (or get taxis) because that would probably be cheaper!

It would be but she wants the convenience of having something on the driveway 'just in case' (possibly not helped by the fact I'm never at home )

Is the Spring any good ? Looks exactly like the kind of thing that might work

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It would be but she wants the convenience of having something on the driveway 'just in case' (possibly not helped by the fact I'm never at home )

Is the Spring any good ? Looks exactly like the kind of thing that might work

Ha ha! Makes sense.

Not driven it, but Dacia makes some really decent products, so I'm sure it will be another one to add to the list.

 

[Bry Nylon]

i was thinking about an electric car, and 2 very good friends who are fireman said you are not buying one Col.

That was all the advice i needed.

Did they then go and scoop up your cancelled order at a substantial discount?