Ed Miliband

[Buzzer]

I like David Cameron.



(I should probably avoid NSC for the rest of the day)

Haha! Good for you. I can't say I hate him because there's not much to hate (unless you're driven by class-envy) but he definitely doesn't inspire me.

 

[pastafarian]

Unlike Cameron, Clegg and Farage who are all incredibly clever and groovy?

no they really are not

simply pointing out people across the spectrum think Milliband is a bellend

it takes a special kind of numptie to make tories and left wing Labour to be in agreeent

 

[Bold Seagull]

Haha! Good for you. I can't say I hate him because there's not much to hate (unless you're driven by class-envy) but he definitely doesn't inspire me.

He and Miliband both have incredibly slappable faces. It is odd that genetically at least, our 2 main party leaders have this type of face. It's a soppy smugness I think.

How does anyone resist slapping these two!?

Gordon Brown got a lot of things wrong, but he knew what these two were….

 

[Wilko]

Definitely not but let's look at his rivals. Lib Dems have Nick Clegg, the Tories David Cameron and with Boris Johnson waiting in the wings, SNP have Salmond and UKIP have Farage. What an embarrassment of riches we have when it comes to our political leaders.

Very true. I would struggle to know who to back at the moment. I think people are going to have to back the political standpoints rather than the individual leaders because let's face it, they are all pretty unlikable characters.

 

[keaton]

no they really are not

simply pointing out people across the spectrum think Milliband is a bellend

it takes a special kind of numptie to make tories and left wing Labour to be in agreeent

But you could say the same with Cameron and right-wing Tories and Labour, and Clegg with Labour, Tories and most of the Lib Dems

 

[Wilko]

Flag-waving Labour numpty here.

Even I can't bring myself to vote for him. He'd be an INCREDIBLY weak PM. Labour need someone else pronto. I really don't see their front bench as vaguely electable at the moment which is a disgrace when you consider how vulnerable the Tories have been for years now.

This is how I feel. A half decent Labour leader would smash the current government out of sight.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

On a related subject, I was abroad last week and saw a couple of TV interviews with DAVID Miliband for whichever body it is he represents now, possibly in the US.

What the f**k were Labour thinking. He is sharp, polished, intelligent, has a clear vision on all manner of world issues and some gravitas, all the things Ed doesn't have. It's no wonder we don't see him much on the TV over here, Labour obviously know how clear the mistake was and have somehow persuaded him to keep a low profile to avoid unfavourable comparisons. Who knows how long that can last.

At the time

David Miliband had the most votes amongst Labour MP's
He had the most votes amongst Labour party members.
The union vote tipped the balance.

It wasn't the rank and file who got it wrong, but the unions who wanted a puppet in on god knows what agenda and orchestrated a campaign with their members to vote Ed in.

I've never voted for anything other than Labour but I won't while Ed is about. He isn't even the best politician in his own family let alone the Labour party.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I like David Cameron.



(I should probably avoid NSC for the rest of the day)

I can't say I dislike Cameron and believe he is more grounded than your average Tory PM, however, my issue with him is that he has absolutely no conviction about anything. As soon as opinion goes against a proposal its dropped quicker than a cross into Ankegrens hands. He has no single minded determination to push anything through - he is just a diplomat.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

....just watched his speech, I just cannot warm to the bloke, I've tried but I cant. Lots of sound bites over substance for me.

Surely Labour are not going to head into the next General Election with this bloke at the helm.

Can anyone really see him as PM, and performing on the world stage? Embarrassing.

I can't stand the man, I know what you mean. It doesn't matter as I will not be voting for Labour anyway. I think you got it right, just sound bites.

 

[Hotchilidog]

This. But it does highlight the question: is politics (now) about presentation, or is it about ideas?

Very good question. I would like to think that the Scottish vote may have made ideas more important than presentation.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've never voted for anything other than Labour but I won't while Ed is about. He isn't even the best politician in his own family let alone the Labour party.

Ha ha I remember James Ormond said something similar when he came out to bat against Australia. Mark Waugh, at slip, let rip: "What are you doing out here? You're too shit to play for England!" Ormond replied: "Maybe so, but at least I'm the best player in my family".

 

[ditchy]

On a related subject, I was abroad last week and saw a couple of TV interviews with DAVID Miliband for whichever body it is he represents now, possibly in the US.

What the f**k were Labour thinking. He is sharp, polished, intelligent, has a clear vision on all manner of world issues and some gravitas, all the things Ed doesn't have. It's no wonder we don't see him much on the TV over here, Labour obviously know how clear the mistake was and have somehow persuaded him to keep a low profile to avoid unfavourable comparisons. Who knows how long that can last.

One reason not to vote Labour . If they cant even elect the right guy and let the unions dictate to them who should be leader..... Not for me

 

[Machiavelli]

I can't say I dislike Cameron and believe he is more grounded than your average Tory PM, however, my issue with him is that he has absolutely no conviction about anything. As soon as opinion goes against a proposal its dropped quicker than a cross into Ankegrens hands. He has no single minded determination to push anything through - he is just a diplomat.

Disagree with about all of this.
Cameron: grounded!?! did this emerge from Eton, the Bullingdon Club, his stint in PR, or working his way up the ranks of the Tory party?
Lack of conviction: the range of policies, particularly related to spending cuts and those taxes that have been increased (VAT, the most regressive tax there is), decreased (business tax, top rate of tax) and avoided (inheritance, property, etc) point in a different direction. He may present himself as a diplomat, and he's very good at rising above situations, but don't think that means that he lacks convictions.

 

[Machiavelli]

Very good question. I would like to think that the Scottish vote may have made ideas more important than presentation.

I agree with you about Scotland, which has been as good an exercise of democracy in action for a long time.
And I hope you're right that it constitutes a shift, but my hope has been thwarted too many times to expect it to happen.

 

[User removed 4]

]

He and Miliband both have incredibly slappable faces. It is odd that genetically at least, our 2 main party leaders have this type of face. It's a soppy smugness I think.

How does anyone resist slapping these two!?

Gordon Brown got a lot of things wrong, but he knew what these two were….

And David miliband doesn't ??

 

[Buzzer]

Disagree with about all of this.
Cameron: grounded!?! did this emerge from Eton, the Bullingdon Club, his stint in PR, or working his way up the ranks of the Tory party?

As I say:

.... there's not much to hate (unless you're driven by class-envy)...

Do you apply the same rigour to Tony Blair or Harriet Harman or Ed Balls or even to our very own Ed Miliband? Schooldays apart (which neither Cameron nor Miliband had any say in where they went) his career has run as a sort of parallel to David Cameron: Oxford Uni, media researcher, policy researcher and speech writer, special adviser and then parachuted into an extremely safe seat in no small part due to his family influences. Both are members of a political class with absolutely no experience as an adult in the real world.

 

[Machiavelli]

As I say:



Do you apply the same rigour to Tony Blair or Harriet Harman or Ed Balls or even to our very own Ed Miliband? Schooldays apart (which neither Cameron nor Miliband had any say in where they went) his career has run as a sort of parallel to David Cameron: Oxford Uni, media researcher, policy researcher and speech writer, special adviser and then parachuted into an extremely safe seat in no small part due to his family influences. Both are members of a political class with absolutely no experience as an adult in the real world.

Much of what you say is right, but schooling is crucial: Cameron is the 19th prime minister to go to Eton, which ought to say something.
As to class envy, let's take both terms in turn: class is not as obvious as it was about a century ago, but that's not to say that neoliberalism hasn't ultimately served as a highly successful class project; and envy suggests that I want to be like him -- given what I write on here, do you really think that's the case?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Disagree with about all of this.
Cameron: grounded!?! did this emerge from Eton, the Bullingdon Club, his stint in PR, or working his way up the ranks of the Tory party?
Lack of conviction: the range of policies, particularly related to spending cuts and those taxes that have been increased (VAT, the most regressive tax there is), decreased (business tax, top rate of tax) and avoided (inheritance, property, etc) point in a different direction. He may present himself as a diplomat, and he's very good at rising above situations, but don't think that means that he lacks convictions.

The grounded comment relates primarily to his son whom he lost. When I have heard him speak on this subject, it gives him a human quality lacking in the likes of IDS and Michael Howard. I'm not saying that he would be great company down your local boozer, swapping jokes and engaging with your average roofer but I sense he has a bit more compassion and understanding than those on the far right of the party or think that hard work is a day out on the yacht.

The 2nd part about convinction was due to his constant back tracking on issues as soon as the wind blows in the wrong direction. NHS reforms, Welfare, Child benefit to name but a few of the top of my head. Thatcher may have been in a minority of 1 who thought Poll Tax was a good idea but she made it happen. Cameron seems to me to be the opposite end of the Spectrum, happy to shelve or modify something if it upsets anyone. Does he have a vision or strategy? I've no idea what it is if he has one.

 

[Buzzer]

Much of what you say is right, but schooling is crucial: Cameron is the 19th prime minister to go to Eton, which ought to say something.
As to class envy, let's take both terms in turn: class is not as obvious as it was about a century ago, but that's not to say that neoliberalism hasn't ultimately served as a highly successful class project; and envy suggests that I want to be like him -- given what I write on here, do you really think that's the case?

Schooling is crucial? In which case George Orwell, Sir Ranulph Fiennes and David Cameron are three peas in a pod and Tony Benn had far more in common with Nicholas Soames than, say Eric Heffer.

Yes, I rather do think there's some kind of envy there if you place so much emphasis on where someone goes to school, over which few of us have any control, rather than what those same people achieve and do as adults, where they usually have full control. So Cameron went to a posh school. It happens, get over it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sad that democracy is so influenced by personality and appearance - and that those things are more important than actual ability to do the job.

In any role where you lead people, personality is a massively important factor. If you're going to lead a country, your personality, authority, calmness under pressure, your appearance even, are all going to be important factors and inextricably linked to your ability to do the job.