Ed Miliband

[Iggle Piggle]

, your appearance even, .

So why does Boris keep getting mentioned for the top job?

 

[Danny-Boy]

Have just heard through "sources" that UKIP have picked their man for the Lewes constituency at last. And it's someone who stood in 2010!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/c59.stm

His name is Ondrej Souchek, who stood as an Independent and got a fantastic 80 (EIGHTY) votes. So at least he could convince them he could do better this time around. Certainly no complaints about picking a white Englishman then.

 

[Tooting Gull]

The phrase 'class envy' is one that is often bandied around with no real meaning or substance by people who have lost the other arguments.

Seriously, who wants a society where you have a far, far better (and at this time increasingly better) chance of getting on in life because of who your parents were or whether you were in the 7 per cent that pay to go to private school?

Do you want thicker people in charge simply because they were told from a young age it was their right to rule the country, while more intelligent youngsters with better minds struggle to get a fair crack?

There has always been inequality in society but things like huge university tuition fees and unpaid internships at employers are making it worse, creating almost a self-perpetuating elite.

 

[Machiavelli]

Schooling is crucial? In which case George Orwell, Sir Ranulph Fiennes and David Cameron are three peas in a pod and Tony Benn had far more in common with Nicholas Soames than, say Eric Heffer.

Yes, I rather do think there's some kind of envy there if you place so much emphasis on where someone goes to school, over which few of us have any control, rather than what those same people achieve and do as adults, where they usually have full control. So Cameron went to a posh school. It happens, get over it.

It doesn't in Finland, for instance, so I won't. They also happen to have the best education system in the world.

 

[Danny-Boy]

The grounded comment relates primarily to his son whom he lost. When I have heard him speak on this subject, it gives him a human quality lacking in the likes of IDS and Michael Howard. I'm not saying that he would be great company down your local boozer, swapping jokes and engaging with your average roofer but I sense he has a bit more compassion and understanding than those on the far right of the party or think that hard work is a day out on the yacht.

The 2nd part about convinction was due to his constant back tracking on issues as soon as the wind blows in the wrong direction. NHS reforms, Welfare, Child benefit to name but a few of the top of my head. Thatcher may have been in a minority of 1 who thought Poll Tax was a good idea but she made it happen. Cameron seems to me to be the opposite end of the Spectrum, happy to shelve or modify something if it upsets anyone. Does he have a vision or strategy? I've no idea what it is if he has one.

I am not a Tory, but I felt that Cameron was not of the "old school". Dunno why but I think he has the "rabbit's foot" luck that poor old Hague, IDS and Howard didn't. By allowing the referendum he has effectively cut the Gordian knot. Salmond sounded deflated and bitter this morning.

It was a risk but by getting Salmond to say this was a "once-off" he has driven him into a hole, which no doubt he will try to wriggle out of. I think history will be kinder to DC than we are now. He will be seen as a MacMillanite leader rather than a Thatcherite one.

 

[Buzzer]

The phrase 'class envy' is one that is often bandied around with no real meaning or substance by people who have lost the other arguments.

Seriously, who wants a society where you have a far, far better (and at this time increasingly better) chance of getting on in life because of who your parents were or whether you were in the 7 per cent that pay to go to private school?

Do you want thicker people in charge simply because they were told from a young age it was their right to rule the country, while more intelligent youngsters with better minds struggle to get a fair crack?

There has always been inequality in society but things like huge university tuition fees and unpaid internships at employers are making it worse, creating almost a self-perpetuating elite.

This public/private school hatred is a total red herring. Ed Miliband, Emily Benn, Euan Blair are as much part of this elite as any Toff from Harrow or Eton. None of them have any idea what it's like to live on a fixed income, none of them have any experience holding down a job out in the real world where mummy or daddy's patronage doesn't land them cushy jobs. All of them attended the top universities because of their family name.

This elite cuts across all political parties and it baffles me why Labour supporters are so blind to this patronising state of affairs. The working classes can't even be trusted to run and represent their own party but rather they're happy for these pampered and privileged know-nothings to represent them and tell them what's best for them and all the while pointing at Tories from public school and saying that 'they're not like us'.

 

[Danny-Boy]

In any role where you lead people, personality is a massively important factor. If you're going to lead a country, your personality, authority, calmness under pressure, your appearance even, are all going to be important factors and inextricably linked to your ability to do the job.

Yup the late Robin Cook said as a "balding ginger" he didn't have a chance. Mind you he did have Neil Kinnock's fate as a guide.

Very interesting prog on R4 this morning discussing the legacy of the late lamented John Smith. He would have made a better PM than Bliar but would he have even lasted to 1997?

 

[Hugo Rune]

Totally wrong, he was an acolyte of Blair and would have been even worse than Ed

Totally totally wrong. David is a leader and potential Prime Minister material, Ed is a weird nerd whom does not have the gravitas or charm of a potential Prime Minister. Thanks to the Unions, we won't be having a Labour Prime Minister next year unless Ed stands down. He won't.

 

[Bladders]

Why? You're the one who said he'd embarass us, if they all do, it's meaningless.

I never said they all do. You're the one who alluded to it.

 

[Tooting Gull]

This public/private school hatred is a total red herring. Ed Miliband, Emily Benn, Euan Blair are as much part of this elite as any Toff from Harrow or Eton. None of them have any idea what it's like to live on a fixed income, none of them have any experience holding down a job out in the real world where mummy or daddy's patronage doesn't land them cushy jobs. All of them attended the top universities because of their family name.

This elite cuts across all political parties and it baffles me why Labour supporters are so blind to this patronising state of affairs. The working classes can't even be trusted to run and represent their own party but rather they're happy for these pampered and privileged, no




To say the private school thing is a red herring, you make yourself sound like an apologist for it that either was privately educated, or sends their kids to private school. The vast difference in facilities and resources for those who can afford to pay for it are in any rational analysis hugely advantageous. Do I think you should be able to buy yourself a better car or house if you're wealthy? Absolutely. A better education for your kids? No I don't. I'm not pretending it's easy to raise standards across the board, and I am well aware many parents buy more expensive houses in affluent areas to get the state school they want, which actually isn't much different.

I would agree with you on the fact that though the Tories are worse this is by no means a party issue, there is a economic/political/society elite, which is why I didn't once mention parties. And it is obviously more hypocritical of Labour not to tackle it harder.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Boris is going to wipe the floor with Milibland who will be regarded as the feeblest Prime Minister in generations.

 

[Hornblower]

This is how I feel. A half decent Labour leader would smash the current government out of sight.

Andy Burnham

 

[Hugo Rune]

This public/private school hatred is a total red herring. Ed Miliband, Emily Benn, Euan Blair are as much part of this elite as any Toff from Harrow or Eton. None of them have any idea what it's like to live on a fixed income, none of them have any experience holding down a job out in the real world where mummy or daddy's patronage doesn't land them cushy jobs. All of them attended the top universities because of their family name.

This elite cuts across all political parties and it baffles me why Labour supporters are so blind to this patronising state of affairs. The working classes can't even be trusted to run and represent their own party but rather they're happy for these pampered and privileged know-nothings to represent them and tell them what's best for them and all the while pointing at Tories from public school and saying that 'they're not like us'.

Remind me which public school Ed Miliband went to?

 

[Buzzer]

Remind me which public school Ed Miliband went to?

I think you've completely misread the post that you quoted. I know they didn't go to public school. I even said so. It's what he's done since. See Post #36 onwards.

 

[Buzzer]

To say the private school thing is a red herring, you make yourself sound like an apologist for it that either was privately educated, or sends their kids to private school. The vast difference in facilities and resources for those who can afford to pay for it are in any rational analysis hugely advantageous. Do I think you should be able to buy yourself a better car or house if you're wealthy? Absolutely. A better education for your kids? No I don't. I'm not pretending it's easy to raise standards across the board, and I am well aware many parents buy more expensive houses in affluent areas to get the state school they want, which actually isn't much different.

I would agree with you on the fact that though the Tories are worse this is by no means a party issue, there is a economic/political/society elite, which is why I didn't once mention parties. And it is obviously more hypocritical of Labour not to tackle it harder.

Apologist for it? Perhaps I am in as much as I really can't get hung up on whether someone went to private school or not (I'm a product of comprehensive school). What matters to me is what they do thereafter.

What really concerns me is this political class at Westminster full of people who are increasingly from a very narrow background. I'm sure you could add privately educated but specifically they appear to be activists or special advisers or researchers or their mum or dad used to be a big noise in political circles. Even those from outside this very narrow sphere of influence are either teachers, lawyers, bankers or union reps.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Schooling is crucial? In which case George Orwell, Sir Ranulph Fiennes and David Cameron are three peas in a pod and Tony Benn had far more in common with Nicholas Soames than, say Eric Heffer.

Yes, I rather do think there's some kind of envy there if you place so much emphasis on where someone goes to school, over which few of us have any control, rather than what those same people achieve and do as adults, where they usually have full control. So Cameron went to a posh school. It happens, get over it.

You can't blame it on class envy when it is a glaring statistical fact that Eton produces more PM's and more cabinet ministers than any other school. The question might be how many talented, creative, dedicated Conservative members have been passed over by those fast tracked because of the school they went to and the influence that brings. This doesn't just happen in politics either.

As for Orwell, his talent won him a free scholarship - his admission wasn't based on his parents wealth or influence. Eton also managed to turn out one of our finest socialist minds!

Personally, it's not about whether it was a posh school, private school or what have you, but that the school reputation itself has no influence whatsoever over the attainment of a former pupil. In striving for equality and fairness, you really do have to question whether 'Eton' on your CV puts you at a great advantage over others regardless of ability and other credentials. If the answer is 'of course it does', then that isn't class envy, that just isn't fair.

 

[Buzzer]

You can't blame it on class envy when it is a glaring statistical fact that Eton produces more PM's and more cabinet ministers than any other school. The question might be how many talented, creative, dedicated Conservative members have been passed over by those fast tracked because of the school they went to and the influence that brings. This doesn't just happen in politics either.

As for Orwell, his talent won him a free scholarship - his admission wasn't based on his parents wealth or influence. Eton also managed to turn out one of our finest socialist minds!

Personally, it's not about whether it was a posh school, private school or what have you, but that the school reputation itself has no influence whatsoever over the attainment of a former pupil. In striving for equality and fairness, you really do have to question whether 'Eton' on your CV puts you at a great advantage over others regardless of ability and other credentials. If the answer is 'of course it does', then that isn't class envy, that just isn't fair.

Okay, I'm clearly not getting my point across here very well and I think I'm just going to be going round in circles saying...what about the Blair, Harman, Benn children who haven't done a day's work in their lives, who are as divorced from reality (as lived by a huge part of this country including most Labour constituencies) as any of the Bullingdon boys. So, I'm bowing out of this thread. No offence intended.

 

[jimhigham]

Keep an eye on Chuka Umunna as a future Labour leader. He is polished and very much in the Obama mould. He just looks the part, which is hugely important whether we like it or not.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Okay, I'm clearly not getting my point across here very well and I think I'm just going to be going round in circles saying...what about the Blair, Harman, Benn children who haven't done a day's work in their lives, who are as divorced from reality (as lived by a huge part of this country including most Labour constituencies) as any of the Bullingdon boys. So, I'm bowing out of this thread. No offence intended.

I've taken no offence at all, but within the posts you appear to defend say the Eton influence by generalising it within overall concerns about a political class - which is right, but within that concern; whether wealth, activism, unionism, family political background etc. it does remain an important factor to question why on earth a single private boys school can have so much influence over the countries politics.

I do also agree that being divorced from reality isn't limited to the current government or just to those graduating from Eton, but as a single place, it does appear to make a disproportionate contribution.

 

[Machiavelli]

Okay, I'm clearly not getting my point across here very well and I think I'm just going to be going round in circles saying...what about the Blair, Harman, Benn children who haven't done a day's work in their lives, who are as divorced from reality (as lived by a huge part of this country including most Labour constituencies) as any of the Bullingdon boys. So, I'm bowing out of this thread. No offence intended.

Can I tempt you back in by stating that the 'political class' that you're so concerned about is actually a feature of the de-democratisation process instigated by neoliberalism?
I don't like it as a notion at all and, as a further tempter, is it the kind of term that you could apply to Iain McLean and other post-war One Nation Tories? If not, why has this phenomenon emerged subsequently?