[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[Baldseagull]

You can’t fact check a claim about the future. Carry on tying yourself in knots.

The claim that we would have an extra £350M a week was based on the lie that there was £350 million a week going to the EU, that was false. It is therefore an impossibility for the £350M that didn't go to the EU to suddenly swell the treasuries coffers.

 

[MattBackHome]

Absolute waffle from Hanks

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A delicious combination of: hubris, arrogance, faux-modesty, revenge, nihilism, the knowledge that he worked with a mendacious bunch of spivs, the knowledge that he is a mendacious spiv, theat he knows he's box office and he's very good at milking it etc etc.

He's basically distancing himself from the shit, settling scores and interviewing for whatever it is he wants to do next I reckon.

I disagree. He's a man who thinks he knows best about certain things. Brexit was important to him. Keeping the tories in power never was. He has no interest in his own popularity. He isn't a narcissist, and he will undoubtedly call a spade a spade. When you agree with him you'll view him as a cunning ally. When you disgree with him he becomes a dangerous enemy. He is also, obviously, extremely arrogant. An interesting character. Shouldn't be allowed anywhere near power, though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hancock did not deny he lied. He said he answerd lots of questions and did what he thought was best.

 

[Swansman]

Its Maupays fault.

 

[Klaas]

Hancock did not deny he lied. He said he answerd lots of questions and did what he thought was best.

Come now, he said he'd been 'straight' with people

 

[studio150]

Usual non answers

Hunt - What can you do in the short term against the Indian variant to ensure we fully open up on 21st June
Hancock - We will make a decision on 14th June based on data and science advice.

Absolutely nothing on what will be undertaken between now and then to get the variant under control.

The lack of a plan continues.

 

[MattBackHome]

Banging on about how many press conferences and meetings he's had. Laughable.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Hancock did not deny he lied. He said he answerd lots of questions and did what he thought was best.

Indeed. No denials of the Cummings allegations in his opening statement, all about deflection as usual. Clearly the allegations are almost all true, not that supporters of this Government will give a flying F.

 

[A1X]

So there's no plan for how we deal with the Indian variant.

Which rather proves what Cummings was saying that they've had no idea what to do since this thing started.

 

[MattBackHome]

Lovely to hear that Hancock enjoyed his trip to the Isles of Scilly though. Glad we're getting to the root of the issue.

 

[dazzer6666]

I've seen a lot of people saying "how can we believe Cummings, he's a serial liar" and yes, they're absolutely right, he totally is. But the inescapable fact is that a lot of what he says is happening corresponds pretty much exactly with what we know was happening because we could see it happening.

The initial push for "herd immunity", we know this is true because Patrick Vallance said exactly that in a televised press conference at the time.
The total lack of a plan, this tallies with the initial confusion and chaos (plus the total lack of action for a good week when pretty much everyone was saying "um, we're doing something about this, right?"
The delays in the second lockdown, we watched Johnson obfuscate for a month in front of our eyes before doing it like Cummings said.
The prioritisation of the economy over lives - Johnson told people to "go back to work" last June.

Obviously a lot of what he said may well be a pack of lies (which will come out, he was under oath yesterday so he can't lie with impunity and escape punishment if he was found to have done so), but the major tenets of what he was saying do seemingly correspond with what we all saw happening at the time (and drew much comment, not least on here).

This is the nub of it for me - we have a series of recollections and views which are almost certainly mostly true and damning of both Boris and the wider handling of the pandemic to various degrees, but they are coming from a largely discredited source and who has a not-so-hidden agenda. All this should have been for the independent inquiry to flush out, not the seemingly egregious backbiting and attempts to discredit people from a narcissistic former employee.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I see Halloween has started very early this year in the House of Lucas.

 

[Lever]

This is the nub of it for me - we have a series of recollections and views which are almost certainly mostly true and damning of both Boris and the wider handling of the pandemic to various degrees, but they are coming from a largely discredited source and who has a not-so-hidden agenda. All this should have been for the independent inquiry to flush out, not the seemingly egregious backbiting and attempts to discredit people from a narcissistic former employee.

Absolutely correct.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is the nub of it for me - we have a series of recollections and views which are almost certainly mostly true and damning of both Boris and the wider handling of the pandemic to various degrees, but they are coming from a largely discredited source and who has a not-so-hidden agenda. All this should have been for the independent inquiry to flush out, not the seemingly egregious backbiting and attempts to discredit people from a narcissistic former employee.

But the purpose of a select committee is to investigate or scrutinise a specific issue in detail and that is what is happening whilst the independent enquiry is being delayed.

We have only just started. There's plenty of time for the other egregious narcissistic backbiters involved to attempt to discredit each other yet

I'd prefer that the enquiry was started as well but it seems certain people don't seem to want that.

 

[beorhthelm]

So there's no plan for how we deal with the Indian variant.

Which rather proves what Cummings was saying that they've had no idea what to do since this thing started.

one of the worst and weirdest things about this government is their lack of communication. even when they do something they dont say so. there is surge testing and vaccinations, advise for local areas. we may not think thats sufficient, it is something of a plan, things are happening on the ground. so its odd they dont mention it. its as if if they dont give an answer or information they cant be challenged on it.

 

[drew]

This is the nub of it for me - we have a series of recollections and views which are almost certainly mostly true and damning of both Boris and the wider handling of the pandemic to various degrees, but they are coming from a largely discredited source and who has a not-so-hidden agenda. All this should have been for the independent inquiry to flush out, not the seemingly egregious backbiting and attempts to discredit people from a narcissistic former employee.

Pretty sure that you can't lie at a select committee however, as per the recent collapsed Hillsborough case, it is accepted that you don't have to tell the truth at a public inquiry!!!

Also, it remains to be seen what the parameters for the inquiry actually will be.

 

[Hugo Rune]

one of the worst and weirdest things about this government is their lack of communication. even when they do something they dont say so. there is surge testing and vaccinations, advise for local areas. we may not think thats sufficient, it is something of a plan, things are happening on the ground. so its odd they dont mention it. its as if if they dont give an answer or information they cant be challenged on it.

I’d agree with that. The Cummings stuff about Johnson needing ‘chaos everywhere so that he can be seen as the leader’ probably accounts for a lot of this. With his astonishing majority, Johnson has clearly ‘turned off the advice’ so to be on message, you have to know what his plans are (which is virtually impossible as he makes so much stuff up as he goes along).

The surge testing/vaccinations is a great example of the Government doing a lot of stuff right but the message flying in the face of the PM’s narrative that we’re almost out of the woods and that we’re on course to re-open everything on the 21st June.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've seen a lot of people saying "how can we believe Cummings, he's a serial liar" and yes, they're absolutely right, he totally is. But the inescapable fact is that a lot of what he says is happening corresponds pretty much exactly with what we know was happening because we could see it happening.

The initial push for "herd immunity", we know this is true because Patrick Vallance said exactly that in a televised press conference at the time.
The total lack of a plan, this tallies with the initial confusion and chaos (plus the total lack of action for a good week when pretty much everyone was saying "um, we're doing something about this, right?"
The delays in the second lockdown, we watched Johnson obfuscate for a month in front of our eyes before doing it like Cummings said.
The prioritisation of the economy over lives - Johnson told people to "go back to work" last June.

Obviously a lot of what he said may well be a pack of lies (which will come out, he was under oath yesterday so he can't lie with impunity and escape punishment if he was found to have done so), but the major tenets of what he was saying do seemingly correspond with what we all saw happening at the time (and drew much comment, not least on here).

Cummings is a bright bloke. A lot of what he has said can’t be judged as outright lies or truth as it is not specific enough. He deals in non specific, carefully worded smears which may or may not be ‘true.’ His opinions on Hancock for instance sound about right because well, that bloke doesn’t come across that well. Whether or not he has ‘lied on oath’ about Hancock, that’s another story. I think I would prefer to wait for the official enquiry. Doubtless we will hear of many mistakes made and that will be a similar outcome to those held in many other democratic nations. What will never be proven is whether anybody else could have done any better and people will doubtless fall into line on that depending upon the colour of their rosette.

 

[dazzer6666]

Pretty sure that you can't lie at a select committee however, as per the recent collapsed Hillsborough case, it is accepted that you don't have to tell the truth at a public inquiry!!!

Also, it remains to be seen what the parameters for the inquiry actually will be.

That’s not the point I was making - he has form for lying........