[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[Kinky Gerbil]

Carl Heneghan has come out this morning saying the key points that he got mentioned in are wrong.

Wonder if he has proof

 

[The Clamp]

Unless he is ousted from within, Johnson has a job for life, I think. The fact that there are posters on here actually having a go at those calling out the lies and not that people telling the lies tells me there are some people out there who have been cuckolded in the truest, original sense of the word.
Johnson knew he could fool enough people into voting for him after the referendum result came in. He knew there were enough easily tricked people to get him into power if he just did an about turn and pretended he thought Brexit would be good for the U.K.

Any British person who is not appalled at the current state of this country doesn’t understand what is happening.

And yes, I’ve mentioned Brexit. The current state and mood of the nation is intrinsically linked to us leaving the EU. If Leave voters aren’t questioning whether Boris is a liar after he sold them that turkey, there’s little hope of change for a good decade or so.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

This!

There is no such thing as truth and honesty anymore at the highest levels of government. Cummings diatribe has confirmed that " our" government is not fit for purpose but we are stuck with them as they aren't going anywhere.

Exactly what was happening in the States, admittedly Johnson is not quite in the same league as Trump.

The difference is they did something about it last November, I can't see anything like that happening in the UK in the near future which is depressing

 

[blue-shifted]

To me this keeps coming back to .... the tories never lied to the public and what they are and what they offer.

They offer jingoistic nationalism, isolationism based on English exceptionalism, low taxation low public service.

They didn't hide their weaknesses. Power hungry leadership, senior figures appointed on basis of fierce ideology rather than ability

The British public looked at this package and overwhelmingly said "yes we'll have some of that"

Then the pandemic hit.

The parable of the frog and the scorpion springs to mind here ...... "but you knew I was a scorpion"

They are still winning by-elections now. Corbyn might have been an excuse at the election, but it's not now. People still want what the tories offer.

Can we really blame the tories? As a country we chose and deserve the massive excess fatality and economic disaster we're getting. The individuals concerned don't of course, but as a country we do.

We'll continue to decline as a nation all the time we let our base instincts govern our behaviour in the polling booth.

 

[Lever]

This thread is about Dominic Cummings' interrogation and we must separate that from the (now closed) Brexit thread.

Sensible people on here will no doubt ignore the typical childish innuendo and sideswipes of a small minority, but under the circumstances of an investigation into dire leadership when many thousands died unnecessarily, it does seem particularly cynical to use such metaphors as 'bingo cards' to describe close scrutiny.

 

[Bry Nylon]

This thread is about Dominic Cummings' interrogation and nothing to do with the (now closed) Brexit thread.

Sensible people on here will no doubt ignore the typical childish innuendo and sideswipes of a small minority, but under the circumstances of an investigation into dire leadership when many thousands died unnecessarily, it does seem particularly cynical to use such metaphors as 'bingo cards' to describe close scrutiny.

This thread has broadly stayed on topic with loads of interesting posts and points of view and has been pretty well self-moderated. But yes, there are a minority who seem to be using it to try to revive old Bear Pit rivalries and goad 'the other side.' If this happens it will end up with just the same handful of posters thrashing out the same old arguments.

So if anyone feels tempted to use this thread as a trojan horse to rekindle the spirit of the Bear Pit they will find themselves unable to contribute any further.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So you would blame those asking the hard questions?

A lot of the allegations made against the Government are provable, and indeed unprovable, if the media who, let’s not forget, laud themselves as bastions of free speech,had the will to investigate. They don’t, because the current relationship between Government and the media ins incestuous. I don’t entirely blame the Tories for this, Blair started it with his dependence on spin. This current bunch have taken it to new heights though.
There are too many instances of dubious conduct at the moment to be a case of one bad apple, etc.

I do fear for our future,this whole culture of corruption and sleaze is beginning to have the stench of the Weimar Republic, Czarist Russia, and Louis xvi France.

I bet there were people who thought everything was fine in those regimes, too.


Anyway, you won everything, enjoy it.

But there you go again. Ridiculous hyperbole conspiracy theories. You are echoing Donald Trump’s ‘drain the swamp’ agenda.

 

[A1X]

I've seen a lot of people saying "how can we believe Cummings, he's a serial liar" and yes, they're absolutely right, he totally is. But the inescapable fact is that a lot of what he says is happening corresponds pretty much exactly with what we know was happening because we could see it happening.

The initial push for "herd immunity", we know this is true because Patrick Vallance said exactly that in a televised press conference at the time.
The total lack of a plan, this tallies with the initial confusion and chaos (plus the total lack of action for a good week when pretty much everyone was saying "um, we're doing something about this, right?"
The delays in the second lockdown, we watched Johnson obfuscate for a month in front of our eyes before doing it like Cummings said.
The prioritisation of the economy over lives - Johnson told people to "go back to work" last June.

Obviously a lot of what he said may well be a pack of lies (which will come out, he was under oath yesterday so he can't lie with impunity and escape punishment if he was found to have done so), but the major tenets of what he was saying do seemingly correspond with what we all saw happening at the time (and drew much comment, not least on here).

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

To me this keeps coming back to .... the tories never lied to the public and what they are and what they offer.

They offer jingoistic nationalism, isolationism based on English exceptionalism, low taxation low public service.

They didn't hide their weaknesses. Power hungry leadership, senior figures appointed on basis of fierce ideology rather than ability

The British public looked at this package and overwhelmingly said "yes we'll have some of that"

Then the pandemic hit.

The parable of the frog and the scorpion springs to mind here ...... "but you knew I was a scorpion"

They are still winning by-elections now. Corbyn might have been an excuse at the election, but it's not now. People still want what the tories offer.

Can we really blame the tories? As a country we chose and deserve the massive excess fatality and economic disaster we're getting. The individuals concerned don't of course, but as a country we do.

We'll continue to decline as a nation all the time we let our base instincts govern our behaviour in the polling booth.

Never a truer word spoken, the Little Englanders got exactly what they voted for

 

[The Clamp]

What do we think Cumming’s agenda is here?

 

[vegster]

Hancock under the grill today...I'm sure Johnson has given him some simple advice in the manner of Blackadder..... " Deny everything Baldrick ! "

 

[MattBackHome]

Gove stepping up to defend Hancock in the house now. Gearing up for the big one

 

[Lever]

What struck me about the interrogation yesterday is the way in which Cummings carefully avoided any criticism of Rishi Sunak when questioned about his role. I wonder if it's possible to read anything into that....

 

[blue-shifted]

What do we think Cumming’s agenda is here?

Is it an agenda or it is a modus operandi?

Stick the cat among the pigeons, let's see what happens

chuck a fag in the fireworks factory

chaos is a ladder

All of that?

 

[Klaas]

What do we think Cumming’s agenda is here?

I imagine he just wants to stick the boot in. I don't believe he's doing anything in a spirit of public service.
Very weirdly, it does seem that it may be telling the truth that is allowing him to do that. Up to people to prove he's lying now.

 

[A1X]

What do we think Cumming’s agenda is here?

Johnson out.
Sunak, Gove & Raab in.

There's no job available to him while Johnson remains in No.10. There might be if he goes.

 

[MattBackHome]

What do we think Cumming’s agenda is here?

A delicious combination of: hubris, arrogance, faux-modesty, revenge, nihilism, the knowledge that he worked with a mendacious bunch of spivs, the knowledge that he is a mendacious spiv, theat he knows he's box office and he's very good at milking it etc etc.

He's basically distancing himself from the shit, settling scores and interviewing for whatever it is he wants to do next I reckon.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Praise the nation. The nation feels proud.

And we move on.

 

[Klaas]

What struck me about the interrogation yesterday is the way in which Cummings carefully avoided any criticism of Rishi Sunak when questioned about his role. I wonder if it's possible to read anything into that....

That's true. Although much of what he said seemed believable, I wonder what he left out.

 

[MattBackHome]

"We have been straight with people"