Doesn't look good for the terrorist Mandela

[kingcole]

He was on everyone's 2013 bucket list. Hardly news when he passes.

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

I know this is fishing, but I'll bite.

The thing with Mandela, wasn't that he was a terrorist. It was that when he came out of Prison, South Africa could easily have slipped into a civil war. Many of the ANC supporters (and others) wanted war. Mandela, when everybody was expecting violence, came out and encouraged his followers that 'the Rainbow nation' was the way forward. That can't have been easy - especially with a lot of the violent protests of the early 1990s.

For me, that is why Mandela was great. Not because of what he did when he was young (many will argue it was justified, many will argue it was not - I'm not getting into that), but because of what he did after his release from Prison.

The World will be a poorer place the day he passes.

*Phew... Calms anger, sips coffee, and reassures himself that NSC does have some rational posters after all*

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

Definition of Terrorist



What Nelson Mandela done (one of many things)



Nelson Mandela = Terrorist. No ifs or buts about it. You can't say he is a freedom fighter, he is a terrorist. He fits the definition of one. Remember, everybody that commits terrorism is doing it because they feel as though they are fighting for the good cause.

And so the point you are trying to make is ?

 

[Brovion]

Indeed. But whilst they were fighting in an admirable cause, and were finally respected as heros, their acts were those of "terror", under SOE leadership to Churchill's orders to "Set Europe Alight". To my undertanding, most of the French military were against them after the Armistice, which is why we had to support a junior General called De Gaulle. Indeed, with the expectancy of an invasion, a large infrastructure was set-up in this country with the intention of fighting the anticipated German occupation with acts of "terror".

Not arguing with that at all, afaik you are correct in every detail. But the reason they're respected as 'heroes' is because we/they won. If the Germans had won then they'd have been seen as scummy renegades worthy of nothing but contempt. Which is why it is commonly accepted that despite the OP's protests to the contrary one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. If you believe, as I and many other do, that Mandela's cause was just and admirable then you can see why he's lauded as a Freedom Fighter. As I said, if one were a supporter of the Apartheid regime then I quite understand those people viewing his actions negatively.

 

[Bruntburger]

Daily Mail, Telegraph and Guardian = someone else's opinion on a matter.

Read both the so called 'left' and 'right' wing papers and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle!

 

[RexCathedra]

Present citizen of a nation founded by terrorists.

 

[piersa]

I am so looking forward to the sophisticated political debate on NSC when Thatcher finally kicks the bucket

When Thatcher kicks the bucket, all the lefties will be dancing in the street. All the educated, normal people will be sad.

 

[soistes]

When Thatcher kicks the bucket, all the lefties will be dancing in the street. All the educated, normal people will be sad.

I rest my case

 

[BadFish]

When Thatcher kicks the bucket, all the lefties will be dancing in the street. All the educated, normal people will be sad.

All the normal stupid people!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#axzz2K6dPJigk

Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says study

The paper analysed large UK studies which compared childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood across more than 15,000 people.

The authors claim that people with low intelligence gravitate towards right-wing views because they make them feel safe.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpUT84Ui
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpULNk9G
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

When Thatcher kicks the bucket, all the lefties will be dancing in the street. All the educated, normal people will be sad.

You're not biased, then.

 

[piersa]

You're not biased, then.

correct.

 

[soistes]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#axzz2K6dPJigk

Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says study

The paper analysed large UK studies which compared childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood across more than 15,000 people.

The authors claim that people with low intelligence gravitate towards right-wing views because they make them feel safe.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpUT84Ui
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpULNk9G
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But which way does the causality go? -- this study implies that higher intelligence makes people more left wing (and vice versa), but maybe the right-wingers start off intelligent, but it's only the subsequent years of reading the Daily Mail that stunts their intellectual growth

 

[daveinprague]

How else was the population of South Africa able to fight the terrorist, apartheid, white dictatorship, that routinely terrrorised the majority population?
Talking about 'terrorism' against that abhorance of a 'State' is laughable.

 

[piersa]

How else was the population of South Africa able to fight the terrorist, apartheid, white dictatorship, that routinely terrrorised the majority population?
Talking about 'terrorism' against that abhorance of a 'State' is laughable.

A very valid point. I just don't like the idea of killing people.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

All the normal stupid people!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...olitics-lead-people-racist.html#axzz2K6dPJigk

Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says study

The paper analysed large UK studies which compared childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood across more than 15,000 people.

The authors claim that people with low intelligence gravitate towards right-wing views because they make them feel safe.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...olitics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpUT84Ui
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...olitics-lead-people-racist.html#ixzz2OpULNk9G
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

All this Left Wing and Ring Wing stuff is crap. Most people have opinions that fall into both areas.

 

[piersa]

All this Left Wing and Ring Wing stuff is crap. Most people have opinions that fall into both areas.

Another very valid point. This is almost becoming reasonable.

 

[daveinprague]

A very valid point. I just don't like the idea of killing people.

ANC tried the non-violent route for 50 years, and got nowhere... the 'terrorist' attacks that landed Mandela in jail was knocking down some power-lines.

 

[BadFish]

All this Left Wing and Ring Wing stuff is crap. Most people have opinions that fall into both areas.

I entirely agree with you. I think it is just a lazy way of discussion anything. Using generalised straw man arguments to avoid what is actually being talked about. FOr some weird reason though I do like getting into the farcical arguments about it on here to see how far people will go with it. Apparently the right wingers will go a very very long way with it.

 

[Lethargic]

As the winners of any conflict are the one that write history then winners are freedom fighters and losers are terrorists, its all a case of perspective. History will note he was a terrorist who became a freedom fighter but other than that its no more than personal views.

He should be remembered for what he achieved upon his release from prison, despite many around him trying to derail the process. I supposes it's a bit like Ashley Barnes if he scores the winner for us in the 2018 FA Cup Final he will go down as a hero and his petulent red cards will be forgotten.

 

[Marxo]

"Doesn't look good for the terrorist Mandela"

Yeah, he's right up there with Gerry Adams and Menachem Begin