Dave the OAP
Well-known member
How do you that mate?
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[Politics] Do we need a General Strike?
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
A most intelligent and reasoned response and how do you know I am in a minority?
I don’t know but to say the NHS isn’t fit for purpose when they have that amount of FTE vacancies seems strange to me. You could train them for free again, remove the need for a full degree, rejoin the EU. My wife is a community nurse and there used to be 8/9 FTE staff nurses there covering the area. There’s now 3 on a normal day.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Because I follow things like opinion polls -- see below.
I also say you're profoundly wrong, because I also follow things like how much other countries spend on healthcare, and what their results are like. You could always privatise healthcare -- largely what they have in the US -- spend nearly twice as much, and get largely worse results. That's the 'efficient' private sector for you.
NHS Poll Jan 2022
www.electoralcalculus.co.uk
The US system is utterly bizarre. Last time I looked they spend twice as much per capita BUT as only a subset of the population has proper access to healthcare it can be argued this is an underestimation. Where do the dollars go?
Only the supplements not the treatments excluded!
Many people are left standing up until they die.Whatever you argue, no one is going to convince me that the NHS should be dismantled and a private healthcare system be bought in. I’m proud of our NHS and will stand up for it until I die
Who has asked for a US like system? Why is it always the Current version we have or the US system as if there is nothing in between?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
labour costs, fees for professional services and full rate for drugs (even generics are relatively expensive). there's a lot of elective procedure and prescriptions we'd not have in Europe. also liability insurance, a nice circular feedback (healthcare cost more, insurance goes up, making healthcare go up). when you dig into numbers a surprising amount is not as private as we imagine, there are state and county/city level services, army, government agencies offering free or subsidied health services. but they all still pay the going rate for a Dr, nursing care, warfarin etc.
Wokeworrier
Active member
Because its a simplistic, strawman, politically motivated way to frame the argument.
People always trot out the example of US private healthcare which is an extreme example. Here in Oz the public and private sectors work hand in hand. If you have need of treatment that is non urgent you have two choices, join the queue by going public or jump to the front by paying through the nose for it. By going private you also get to choose your consultant, stay in a nicer hospital, etc etc. If you have need of treatment for life changing/threatening conditions then public/private makes no difference in your speed of treatment. I have needed to use the public system frequently over the last year or two and can pay testament to a healthcare regime which is light years ahead of what I both recall, and have heard, about the NHS recently. Scans for instance, what kind, how many, when would you like them etc etc?
The NHS needs radical reform in my view, not tinkering at the edges. You can get a GP appointment here quite easily in the next few days, in the short term you may need to pay but the majority is refunded to you in the medium term. Unless you want the latest celebrity doctor of course! This deters the time wasters who take up appointments for no good reason, if people really are unable to pay then they can go to a clinic operating on a free at point of contact basis but may have to wait a little longer. If urgent then there is the emergency department at local hospitals.
Healthcare is taken very seriously over here, some Aussies may moan that it ain’t perfect but they have not experienced the NHS. For those defending the status quo in UK healthcare you are nuts, look at the Covid figures for UK v Aus. Different policies of management I grant you, but a lack of temporary hospitals over here, most other urgent medical procedures carried on as per, and the mortality rates of the virus too. So yes, lower level healthcare staff need better wages, but the NHS is not admired all over the world anymore, it really is still living on former glories, and is still stuck in the 20th century.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,199
The healthcare over here is well funded. It really is as simple as that.
The only reform that is needed in the UK is for the government to stop choking the NHS in order to call for reform and continue to privatise it.
One of the best things about Australians is they they don't continue to tug their forlocks to posh twats 'born to rule' while they take the piss over and over.
HalfaSeatOn
Well-known member
How do you continually improve and maintain the health of the nation is the fundamental question. The answer is a complex one with the nhs part of the mix.
Perhaps you should re read my post. Where did I suggest privatisation? I was suggesting (trying to at least, but you clearly don't do 'debate') that we need an open, non politicised debate as to what the nhs should be delivering and how we pay for it. I will be very surprised if you can show me a poll that say the majority of people are opposed to that but if you can then please post it here.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
Wwishful
Wishful thinking, the tories have alienated and disgusted too many people this time. Everyone involved knows that this strike will define the following era
Not sure, how many people vowed never to use P&O , BA etc etc after they way they treated staff.
Most people have already forgotten.
Having someone with experience in charge often helps:
www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de
(CV to long to paste-see link)
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
www.gov.uk
Steve qualified as a solicitor in 1998. He worked as an insurance company lawyer for Axa Insurance, as a regulator for the Financial Services Authority, and as Director of Regulatory Affairs and then Head of Anti-Money Laundering and Sanctions at Barclays Retail Bank.
Prof. Dr. Karl Lauterbach – Federal Minister of Health
Prof. Dr. Karl Lauterbach – Federal Minister of Health
Prof. Dr. Karl Lauterbach was sworn in as Federal Minister of Health on December 8, 2021.
www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de
(CV to long to paste-see link)
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
The Rt Hon Steve Barclay MP
The Rt Hon Steve Barclay MP
Steve Barclay was appointed Secretary of State for Health and Social Care on 25 October 2022. He previously held the same role between 5 July 2022 and 6 September 2022. He was previously appointed Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office between 15 September 2021...
Steve qualified as a solicitor in 1998. He worked as an insurance company lawyer for Axa Insurance, as a regulator for the Financial Services Authority, and as Director of Regulatory Affairs and then Head of Anti-Money Laundering and Sanctions at Barclays Retail Bank.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,947
- Thread starter
- #198
If you think people have been ‘defending the status quo in UK healthcare’ on this thread then you clearly havent been reading the whole thread nor following the UK news!
No one (except maybe a few Tory Government ministers) wants to maintain the ‘status quo’ in the NHS or in the public at large - exactly the opposite - one of the main failings in the NHS fall around staff shortages right across the board ie GP services, in adult social care (which is having a crisis of its own) and in hospitals etc in the NHS .
Our nurses (striking for the first time in their 106 history I might add) and the medical profession are campaigning for better service delivery which in turn requires a solution to the staffing problem and better employment conditions (ie hours, pay, stability). How that is achieved is open to debate but is clear the majority of the British public (as does Labour) will want to see the NHS remain free at the point of service. However, for the sake of our overseas members, 12-13 years of Tory rule has left the NHS very much underfunded and understaffed. More than 2200 NHS workers have left their jobs due to Brexit and replacements are deterred by the resulting new visa and health surcharge fees.
As for whether or not we need a General Election spare a thought that …
”Compared to other countries, the UK does not spend a particularly high proportion of its national wealth on health care, while a decade of historically low funding increases has left services facing huge pressures and a workforce crisis. Like levels of taxation and public spending more generally, how much is spent on health is a political choice and politicians should be honest with the public about the standards of care they can expect with the levels of funding provided.”
Health and social care in England: tackling the myths
In what can feel like a heated political discussion, we have taken five myths that sometimes feature in this debate and debunked them.
And, yes, as to Herr T’s post above, putting someone in charge that has some modicum of what ‘healthcare’ means would be a good start!
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rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
You're forgetting this is the NHS, and many, many people have lost love ones prematurely as a direct result of Tory policy. We shall see how the people feel, soon enough
Excuse my ignorance, but how can a generic be more expensive in the US?