[Politics] Do we need a General Strike?

[Zeberdi]

What about the NHS are you most proud of? What is world leading about it, it’s certainly not the treatment side.


The Nurses/entry level staff are great, which people seem to think you are insulting when you say it’s not fit for purpose.

So you want the NHS dismantled and tell the striking public sector workers to piss off?

Sorry but I get really angry when people start blaming the NHS instead of 13 years of Tory neglect for any failings.

Yes, proud, because it does not discriminate against the poor or vulnerable and, I can tell you from my own experience the care has been exemplary and amongst the highest qualified staff in Europe but then I get treated (and have been for some years) at Addenbrookes so that would probably bias me in favour of the NHS

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Well of course you’d know wouldn't you?

I can only go on what I can found out online

https://www.thelocal.de/20201002/healthcare-in-germany-your-out-of-pocket-costs-explained-ottonova-tlccu/

“if you’re looking for hair loss treatment, your luck’s out. The same is true if you’re fond of herbal remedies; many appear on the Ministry of Health’s list of drugs you can’t claim for – along with treatments you can buy over-the-counter (OTC) like cold medicines, Ibuprofen and nasal sprays.”

All this is a distraction from the real issue on this thread - this UK GOVERNMENT needs to start investing in our public services or fcuk off and let another Party do it for them.

Just throwing money at something isn’t the answer.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So you want the NHS dismantled and tell the striking public sector workers to piss off?

Dismantled by who? I’d like it to be looked at and reformed to something that actually works for people who are sick.

The dismantled line is always the go to line when anyone mentions looking at the system properly, which is why we are stuck with the mess we have.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Only the supplements not the treatments excluded!

Whatever you argue, no one is going to convince me that the NHS should be dismantled and a private healthcare system be bought in. I’m proud of our NHS and will stand up for it until I die

Im not arguing. And I’m not suggesting anything about dismantling the NHS. I am also and advocate of public healthcare and would be disappointed if the German system went private. Having experienced both, the NHS does lag significantly in my experience and something needs to change.

 

[Zeberdi]

Dismantled by who? I’d like it to be looked at and reformed to something that actually works for people who are sick.

The dismantled line is always the go to line when anyone mentions looking at the system properly, which is why we are stuck with the mess we have.

I‘m not continuing to post replies as I do not want to dominate the thread answering platitudes and one liner throw away comments! I have said my opinion…

EDIT - Just to add, no one has suggested ‘throwing’ money at anything! It’s actually rather disingenuous btw to even suggest that paying nurses a higher wage is ‘throwing’ money at the NHS - When people, actually most people on this thread have supported the idea that investment is required, one can assume it’s not to reinforce what is broken but to make organisational and structural changes for the better - I can’t see how the NHS can be reformed without spending money though tbf!

 

[Zeberdi]

Im not arguing. And I’m not suggesting anything about dismantling the NHS. I am also and advocate of public healthcare and would be disappointed if the German system went private. Having experienced both, the NHS does lag significantly in my experience and something needs to change.

And I wasn’t arguing with that - please read back - I’ve repeatedly agreed there needs to be reinvestment - which could start by improving pay conditions for nurses - and I didn’t say you had said anything about ‘dismantling’ - it was a general remark directed at anyone who thinks a private healthcare system would be preferable to the NHS. Thats all

 

[worthingseagull123]

So you want the NHS dismantled and tell the striking public sector workers to piss off?

Sorry but I get really angry when people start blaming the NHS instead of 13 years of Tory neglect for any failings.

Yes, proud, because it does not discriminate against the poor or vulnerable and, I can tell you from my own experience the care has been exemplary and amongst the highest qualified staff in Europe but then I get treated (and have been for some years) at Addenbrookes so that would probably bias me in favour of the NHS

The NHS is bad now, but the NHS was often dreadful under Labour. In 1999 I spent two years in agony with a back problem. It took nearly a year of fighting with an incompetent doctor to just get the MRI scan that found the issue.

Then a nice long wait for surgery.

The NHS didn’t become poor under this current government. It has been duff for decades.

 

[LamieRobertson]

The NHS is bad now, but the NHS was often dreadful under Labour. In 1999 I spent two years in agony with a back problem. It took nearly a year of fighting with an incompetent doctor to just get the MRI scan that found the issue.

Then a nice long wait for surgery.

The NHS didn’t become poor under this current government. It has been duff for decades.

You can’t say stuff like this …you must know by now that everything wrong is down to the Tories and Labour will put everything right.


Note I am not aligned to any political party but think a change is due.

 

[Randy McNob]

You can’t say stuff like this …you must know by now that everything wrong is down to the Tories and Labour will put everything right.


Note I am not aligned to any political party but think a change is due.

I will say one thing in response to this, iḿ not a labour supporter by any means but being born in 1974 I grew up in the 80ś and all l've known is the Thatcher / Major years, then New Labour, then Tories till present.

The only good times I recall were mostlty under the labour era. We had better public services, a united country, I was able to buy my first house and we had growth year after year, economy was booming with jobs a plenty, blohards and racists were cast to the margins where they belonged and laughed at (today they get their own TV show) Under The Thatcher years the country was divided, there were riots and they were generally bad times. Fast forward to the current Tory era and it's more of the same - austerity since day one, a country divided, wealth inequality, and right now the country is in complete chaos

 

[Glawstergull]

I find it funny when people moan about Wealthy people, tax avoidance and bad government when the tradesman classes take cash jobs on an industrial scale, the civil service is wholly incompetent and the public sector is rife with self interest and pilfering. Don't get me started on benefit fraud. The lord of the manor is as much a crook as is the lowest surf. How many NHS, Fireman, Border officers, Teachers etc etc etc lost their jobs due to covid?
There needs to be a meeting of minds on a level unseen where all baggage and historical division is left at the door.
We need a general strike as much as we need a nuclear war.
Our last revolution was so long ago that the the benefits have gone.
Time to act like adults not children.

 

[Zeberdi]

How many NHS, Fireman, Border officers, Teachers etc etc etc lost their jobs due to covid?

Good point - Only the ones that died from Covid caught by working on the frontlines to maintain essential services or as key workers while the rest of us hunkered down - so not that many

 

[Comrade Sam]

The early 1970s were the time when the gap between rich and poor what at their narrowest and currently it is at its widest.
The NHS is being dismantled, as huge swathes of services are tendered out or given to ministers friends. My brother in law ran a couple of Specsavers and at their conference 18 months ago they were dribbling over the new local health arrangements. These would take money away from local NHS and put them up for bidding wars for private suppliers.

 

[Comrade Sam]

I don't think it's funny moaning about the rich avoiding tax, I think it's shocking. The amount involved is astronomical and pales almost everything into insignificance.

 

[Glawstergull]

Good point - Only the ones that died from infections caught by working on the frontlines to maintain essential services or as key workers while the rest of us hunkered down.

My mothers death could have possibly been avoided by a negligent health service on diagnosis and an infection caught from award at a hospital.
Thats exactly the smart arse comment that needs to be left at the door.

 

[Zeberdi]

My mothers death could have possibly been avoided by a negligent health service on diagnosis and an infection caught from award at a hospital.
Thats exactly the smart arse comment that needs to be left at the door.

And my 86 year old Mum’s was definitely saved by extraordinary bio-security measures taken by an extremely dedicated mult-disciplined team of over-worked consultants and under-paid nurses when she required a full hip replacement, extensive surgery for a highly invasive cancer and 7 weeks of radiation - in the height of the pandemic, in one of the areas with the highest hospitalisations for Covid in the Country. She completely recovered and never got Covid. Thank you NHS from the bottom of my heart.

It’s not ‘smart arse’ to point out that just because nurses, fireman, border workers and teachers didnt lose their jobs during Covid (or didn’t succumb to illness or have mental breakdowns) does not invalidate their calls for better working conditions and job security.

I’m truly sorry about your Mother.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I will say one thing in response to this, iḿ not a labour supporter by any means but being born in 1974 I grew up in the 80ś and all l've known is the Thatcher / Major years, then New Labour, then Tories till present.

The only good times I recall were mostlty under the labour era. We had better public services, a united country, I was able to buy my first house and we had growth year after year, economy was booming with jobs a plenty, blohards and racists were cast to the margins where they belonged and laughed at (today they get their own TV show) Under The Thatcher years the country was divided, there were riots and they were generally bad times. Fast forward to the current Tory era and it's more of the same - austerity since day one, a country divided, wealth inequality, and right now the country is in complete chaos

Fair enough and a nicely reasoned argument..it’s as you find isn’t it …I can’t say I share the same experiences ..although must admit I was at the time very anti poll tax and the inflexibility of a certain persons ‘ways’

 

[abc]

The NHS is no longer fit for purpose for many reasons and one is how the demands on it have increased massively as we all live longer and treatments for everything become more available but at huge expense. Its worth remembering that the original nhs offered everything for free but the same labour gov that created it realised within a couple of years that this was unaffordable and introduced prescription charges along with dental and optical fees.
There is every reason to be proud and full of admiration for so many that work in the nhs and proud of the principles that the nhs was founded on. But it is neither working for staff or patients anymore.
We need a rethink and a new plan that can deliver free basic healthcare either to all but in a way that we can afford. It may be that the wealthiest have to pay extra towards this, I really dont know. But the only way we will end up with a health system that is fair and delivers, is for everyone to stop using it as a poiltical football. It is far, far too important to us all for it to be hampered any more by party politics

 

[CHAPPERS]

Fill the 130,000+ vacancies in the NHS and then have a discussion about whether it’s fit for purpose or not.

 

[Machiavelli]

The NHS is no longer fit for purpose for many reasons and one is how the demands on it have increased massively as we all live longer and treatments for everything become more available but at huge expense. Its worth remembering that the original nhs offered everything for free but the same labour gov that created it realised within a couple of years that this was unaffordable and introduced prescription charges along with dental and optical fees.
There is every reason to be proud and full of admiration for so many that work in the nhs and proud of the principles that the nhs was founded on. But it is neither working for staff or patients anymore.
We need a rethink and a new plan that can deliver free basic healthcare either to all but in a way that we can afford. It may be that the wealthiest have to pay extra towards this, I really dont know. But the only way we will end up with a health system that is fair and delivers, is for everyone to stop using it as a poiltical football. It is far, far too important to us all for it to be hampered any more by party politics

You are of course profoundly wrong but, fortunately, you're in a very small minority.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Sort the care system out, that seems to be an obvious bottleneck to free beds.