[Albion] Do Forest have a better squad than us?

[A1X]

There are a group of clubs, largely on a par, who are relatively evenly matched on paper and form / luck means one of them usually gets ahead of the pack and challenges higher up. We’ve done it, Villa, Newcastle and this season it’s Forest. How high up they go depends on who if the big 6 drops out, when it was us only one of them finished below us IIRC, whereas it looks like three might for Forest. That’s just luck of the draw.

 

[chickens]

Doesn’t every manager have the same job? Results they live or die by them. Because we were winning no one questioned the Trossard or Sanchez sales. If Fab had us in the top 4 and dropped say Beleba we wouldn’t question it. That’s football for you.

Well, results are part (yes, an important part) of what Hürzeler’s being asked to do. However, the individual player development part of Hürzeler’s job has almost equal importance to short-term results, which isn’t unique to us, but does mean making judgment calls with a greater number of variables than teams who simply get players in to fill positions for the here and now.

Nuno isn’t being asked to ensure Chris Wood can be sold for a profit in 18 months time, or have psychological pressure on him to drop Wood (or anyone else) for a youngster so the youngster can develop into first-team ready.

Whereas Hürzeler is looking to bring every player on individually, and get them integrated into the squad and playing well for the team, knowing that our model is absolutely to let them go when they become the finished article.

The Brighton gig is tougher than a lot of other gigs out there. Even at PL level. We ask a lot of our coaches.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Well, results are part (yes, an important part) of what Hürzeler’s being asked to do. However, the individual player development part of Hürzeler’s job has almost equal importance to short-term results, which isn’t unique to us, but does mean making judgment calls with a greater number of variables than teams who simply get players in to fill positions for the here and now.

Nuno isn’t being asked to ensure Chris Wood can be sold for a profit in 18 months time, or have psychological pressure on him to drop Wood (or anyone else) for a youngster so the youngster can develop into first-team ready.

Whereas Hürzeler is looking to bring every player on individually, and get them integrated into the squad and playing well for the team, knowing that our model is absolutely to let them go when they become the finished article.

The Brighton gig is tougher than a lot of other gigs out there. Even at PL level. We ask a lot of our coaches.

So it’s a shame that under him we look physically weaker, positionally poor, less technical and less confident.

 

[Zeberdi]

I can see why McKenna was the top target and he probably should have followed his head and not his heart. He is very popular with his players and with our squad who knows where we would be.

Where is the source that said McKenna was our first choice?

As to the comparison between Nuno and Hürzeler - chalk and cheese.

One is a project manager that builds over time, develops players over several seasons to build an effective system and develops with it as Potter did - as FH is doing hopefully - price you pay is that there are peaks and troughs in performances and the trajectory is non-linear. The other is an expensive, top flight and proven manager (Champions League Level, Saudi Pro, Premier League) who goes in and has a created a top 11 man squad out of what was a shitshow with only a few new players and a lot of conviction and belief instilled into the players - when a proven manager like Nuno tells you you could get from the relegation zone to the Champions league in a calendar year if you jump, then you jump and the trajectory is linear.

Are they better than us? Yes, with Milenkovic, in the back four alongside Murillo, they are playing one of the best defensive games in the league - if they get a new striker in January, I would say Champions League beckons.

 

[Justice]

I So it’s a shame that under him we look physically weaker, positionally poor, less technical and less confident.

The job is to big for him the quicker the people who can do something about it the better we will be. I don’t blame Fab the job came to early.

 

[Hiheidi]

BS?

Where is the proof that McKenna was our first choice?

Alex Crook - a tier 1 source - was very vocal!

 

[LamieRobertson]

i Think Nuno has done a cracking job so far…..can they maintain it? Check the table again at end of season….meanwhile well done Forest.

that 2/2 draw isn’t looking too bad now

 

[hart's shirt]

They've got a clear style of play which helps.

 

[Justice]

BS?

Where is the proof that McKenna was our first choice?

So you don’t believe McKenna? He literally said it

BS?

Where is the proof that McKenna was our first choice?

McKenna and then Jindřich Trpišovský both turned us down. How far down the list Fab was is anyone’s guess.

 

[jcdenton08]

I personally would have gone for the current Frankfurt manager in the summer.
Dino Topmoller has had an interesting career so far a young coach who used to be Nagelsmann's assistant manager.
Would he have been tempted to the PL with a £200m war chest maybe.

He wouldn’t have got a £200m war chest. We don’t operate like football operated in the 80’s and 90’s - the gaffer doesn’t get on the blower to hash out a transfer of a player he wants. The role has been for the last three bosses “Head Coach”. Their remit is the development of the players on the pitch and the picking of the team and tactics.

We would’ve made exactly the same signings regardless of who we brought in as head coach, because the signings were made above the head coach.

It’s said to be one of the very reasons for RDZ’s unhappiness, in that we weren’t willing/able to get his targets, and instead use a data driven model in recruitment.

And if the head coach didn’t like that? They wouldn’t have been hired.

 

[portslade seagull]

A more experienced manager who knows how to set up his team

 

[Weststander]

Do TB/FH work to get as high a league position this season, to make Europe? All other considerations very secondary.

Or is it a mix of that, to accept a lower league position if needs be because it’s in the job description that FH enhances the resale value of a load of players through squad rotation?

Until this thread with comments by club insiders, naively, I’d never thought that any club strived for anything other than maximising league position in a season.

 

[tstanbur]

I can see why McKenna was the top target and he probably should have followed his head and not his heart. He is very popular with his players and with our squad who knows where we would be.

The same McKenna you’ve had a pop at for being out of his depth and that we dodged a bullet?

Make your mind up

 

[chickens]

So it’s a shame that under him we look physically weaker, positionally poor, less technical and less confident.

I would agree that our last performance (second half in particular) suggested confidence is ebbing slightly.

Positionally poor? Not really, hardly a rout, was it? I know lots don’t like the high defensive line, but by and large it works.

Less technical? Yes, if you mean “technical” in a RDZ/Pep way, not fixed patterns drilled to within an inch of your life, but greater belief in individual decision-making. We’re trying to make our players smarter, not just technically better, this will take time and confidence plays a part.

Physically weaker? I think we look less physical with Enciso upfront, and while I like Lamptey at right-wing I don’t ever want to see him at right-back unless we’re playing a team from the Shire. We’ve looked poor physically without Veltman/Ferdi/Hinshelwood at RB, and Dunk wasn’t at his best for a few games. I’ve not seen a weakening outside those areas.

For me we need a slightly smaller pool of players, and I hope FH has the confidence to suggest that at least a couple go on loan. I’m happy with where we are right now, and I’ll give FH at least as long as the club hierarchy do before I start getting on his (or the players) back.

 

[Justice]

The same McKenna you’ve had a pop at for being out of his depth and that we dodged a bullet?

Make your mind up

Prove it, in fact I’ve said a few times I can see why Bloom was interested.

 

[Justice]

He wouldn’t have got a £200m war chest. We don’t operate like football operated in the 80’s and 90’s - the gaffer doesn’t get on the blower to hash out a transfer of a player he wants. The role has been for the last three bosses “Head Coach”. Their remit is the development of the players on the pitch and the picking of the team and tactics.

We would’ve made exactly the same signings regardless of who we brought in as head coach, because the signings were made above the head coach.

It’s said to be one of the very reasons for RDZ’s unhappiness, in that we weren’t willing/able to get his targets, and instead use a data driven model in recruitment.

And if the head coach didn’t like that? They wouldn’t have been hired.

We don’t exactly know why RDZ parted ways, we can guess he was sacked we can guess many things. They always make a point of saying before we make a signing we check with the head coach unless that’s a lie of course

 

[tstanbur]

Prove it, in fact I’ve said a few times I can see why Bloom was interested.

Here you go

I’m not sure who is making the decisions. We either stick to his high line and develop it and except losing a few along the way which I’m sure was the idea until Dunk shut it down.
The clubs data has possibly fallen short with managers. McKenna seems lost in this league also and he was the main target

 

[Berty23]

We have had the worst injuries in the league. They have had one of the cleanest bill’s of health. We should have beaten them and held on vs Leics and wolves. If that happens we are three points behind them despite our injuries.

 

[Zeberdi]

Alex Crook - a tier 1 source - was very vocal!

Where was the proof Hürzeler wasn’t first choice.

He wasn’t even on the radar of these sports journalists when they were all guessing McKenna was the top choice. Shows what they know

And just to reiterate, as it was at the time, “ a stand out candidate” does not mean the first choice necessarily- it could just as easily mean, one of several that stood out in a crowded field.

Paul B. also said they considered 3 or 4 candidates and Hürzeler ”emerged as the outstanding candidate out of those”



I’d rather believe the Club than a transfer/sports journo.

 

[Justice]

Here you go

tell me you didn’t furiously search the board for that, to be fair I have changed my mind about him lately they could have beaten Arsenal last night with a bit more quality in front of goal.
Well done for stalking though