[Albion] Dan Ashworth joins Newcastle

[Commander]

Save me trawling through this thread, has he gone to Newcastle then?

No, he's going to downgrade his lifestyle and go to Crawley instead.

 

[Stat Brother]

Save me trawling through this thread, has he gone to Newcastle then?

I hope not I've just got his face tattooed onto my thigh.



#OneForTheKidz.

 

[Peteinblack]

But quite a few people have had to adjust their lifestyle because of a change in their employment / personal circumstances.

You can downsize your property, it isn't compulsory to privately educate your kids (if you look at our cabinet you can see why private education doesn't actually work) and nobody ever needs a 100K car etc.

"Cut the cloth to suit the purse"

Sadly, though, there are still huge double-standards in Britain today, which means sneering at the less well-off and blaming the poor for their poverty (rather than the employers or companies which pay poverty wages), while drooling over the mega-rich.

When Marcus Rashford was promoting his free school meals campaign for kids in low-income households, the online comments of Right-wing newspapers like the Daily Mail and Telegraph were full of vicious bile and vitriol about "not having kids if you can't afford to feed them" - totally oblivious to the fact that most people can afford their kids when they start their family, but then years later, tragedy strikes: redundancy (no more jobs-for-life that many of today's pensioners enjoyed), serious long-term illness, partner who's a police office or soldier killed 'in the line of duty', main breadwinner gets killed in fatal car crash or hit by a drunk-driver, employer cuts staff wages and salaries to stay in business, women who have had to flee men who became violent or alcoholic, etc.

But the average Mail reader is generally as arrogant as they are ignorant, and certainly lacks emotional intelligence, empathy or the ability to sympathise with those worse-off than themselves: they don't do "there for the grace of God go I". To them, all working-class people struggling to make ends meet (through no fault of their own) are like the characters they see on Little Britain or Benefits Street - every lone parent or unmarried mother is a Vicky Pollard who's had 10 kids by 10 different fathers.

Yet these same vindictive, anti-poor, Right-wingers will become drooling bleeding-heart liberals if a rich person complains about their 'hardship' - "Oh, that lovely business tycoon is struggling to afford Tarquin's £43,000 per year Eton fees", or "Oh, poor Jocasta had to sell her pony and give up her violin lessons, because mummy and daddy's business collapsed. It's terrible, the Government should really do more to help these lovely people, perhaps by cutting their taxes."

In terms of attitudes and morality, we haven't really changed much or progressed since the 19th Century; society still looks up admiringly to the rich (regardless of how greedy or corrupt they are, how badly they treat their workers, or how much they avoid paying their taxes), while the poor are still looked down upon as trash and blamed for being poor, even when their poverty is due to low wages paid by billionaire employers. We have millions of working-class people who idolise Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, even though these public-school-educated toffs look down their noses at the working class (Johnson described working class men as 'drunken layabouts" and Liz Truss - tipped to replace Johnson this year - is among a group of prominent Tories who claimed, in 2012 or 2013, that British workers were among the laziest in the world - she wants to further reduce employment protection and make it even easier to sack workers, in the name of 'labour market flexibility').

The fact is that millions of ordinary people do work hard - they have to in order to avoid being sacked or hopefully be spared in their firm's next round of redundancies - but it doesn't make any difference; they are still paid the same wage or salary, while their employer gets a huge pay rise and a bonus, and the shareholders share £ millions in dividends.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Save me trawling through this thread, has he gone to Newcastle then?

No but he still might.

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't really get why so many people can't understand this. If you got a £10K pay rise you wouldn't live exactly the same life but with an extra £10K a year in the bank, otherwise what's the point? I'm sure there is probably a number where it all becomes irrelevant, but I suspect that is far, far higher than £400K a year. Even Premier League footballers can't afford proper luxury yachts- until you get to Billionaire status there will always be something else to take you up a level. In fact once you get to be a Billionaire you start buying space rockets...

I'm not sure where you're getting the £400k figure from (especially as this isn't the time you've mentioned it) -- I suspect it'll be far more than that. Other posters, eg El Pres, are probably more attuned to this.
Where I do agree with you is on a point that's largely been lost: the motivation for DA going to Newcastle is as likely to be about working with the very best players as it is about financial enrichment.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think there are many different reasons why certain people become super-successful. I've known a few and often there's a certain amount of luck involved - mainly being in the right place at the right time - and even sometimes an element of grade 1 what you said above. But mostly I agree that they are driven and are prepared to do things and take risks that most of us just wouldn't. For example, move to a strange city, give up a steady job, go into debt to back their judgement, continually put themselves in the frame for things. Mostly they have an astonishing amount of front and aren't afraid of failing at first or looking stupid.

agreed - i have known some talented people to get there but have also known some talented people who have got no where - not recognised by management and because they are not driven they have stayed where they were.

I recognised many years ago that chasing money was not for me ,I did not have that drive or strength . I have done alright but for me my family was number 1

 

[Commander]

Sadly, though, there are still huge double-standards in Britain today, which means sneering at the less well-off and blaming the poor for their poverty (rather than the employers or companies which pay poverty wages), while drooling over the mega-rich.

When Marcus Rashford was promoting his free school meals campaign for kids in low-income households, the online comments of Right-wing newspapers like the Daily Mail and Telegraph were full of vicious bile and vitriol about "not having kids if you can't afford to feed them" - totally oblivious to the fact that most people can afford their kids when they start their family, but then years later, tragedy strikes: redundancy (no more jobs-for-life that many of today's pensioners enjoyed), serious long-term illness, partner who's a police office or soldier killed 'in the line of duty', main breadwinner gets killed in fatal car crash or hit by a drunk-driver, employer cuts staff wages and salaries to stay in business, women who have had to flee men who became violent or alcoholic, etc.

But the average Mail reader is generally as arrogant as they are ignorant, and certainly lacks emotional intelligence, empathy or the ability to sympathise with those worse-off than themselves: they don't do "there for the grace of God go I". To them, all working-class people struggling to make ends meet (through no fault of their own) are like the characters they see on Little Britain or Benefits Street - every lone parent or unmarried mother is a Vicky Pollard who's had 10 kids by 10 different fathers.

Yet these same vindictive, anti-poor, Right-wingers will become drooling bleeding-heart liberals if a rich person complains about their 'hardship' - "Oh, that lovely business tycoon is struggling to afford Tarquin's £43,000 per year Eton fees", or "Oh, poor Jocasta had to sell her pony and give up her violin lessons, because mummy and daddy's business collapsed. It's terrible, the Government should really do more to help these lovely people, perhaps by cutting their taxes."

In terms of attitudes and morality, we haven't really changed much or progressed since the 19th Century; society still looks up admiringly to the rich (regardless of how greedy or corrupt they are, how badly they treat their workers, or how much they avoid paying their taxes), while the poor are still looked down upon as trash and blamed for being poor, even when their poverty is due to low wages paid by billionaire employers. We have millions of working-class people who idolise Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, even though these public-school-educated toffs look down their noses at the working class (Johnson described working class men as 'drunken layabouts" and Liz Truss - tipped to replace Johnson this year - is among a group of prominent Tories who claimed, in 2012 or 2013, that British workers were among the laziest in the world - she wants to further reduce employment protection and make it even easier to sack workers, in the name of 'labour market flexibility').

The fact is that millions of ordinary people do work hard - they have to in order to avoid being sacked or hopefully be spared in their firm's next round of redundancies - but it doesn't make any difference; they are still paid the same wage or salary, while their employer gets a huge pay rise and a bonus, and the shareholders share £ millions in dividends.

You might has well have just written "I'm jealous of rich people". It would have been a lot quicker.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

You might has well have just written "I'm jealous of rich people". It would have been a lot quicker.

Well. I'm jealous of rich people. (but yes not really bothered enough to do much about it)

 

[Commander]

Well. I'm jealous of rich people. (but yes not really bothered enough to do much about it)

Same. I also want a six pack. Not badly enough to get one.

I'm not sure where you're getting the £400k figure from (especially as this isn't the time you've mentioned it) -- I suspect it'll be far more than that. Other posters, eg El Pres, are probably more attuned to this.
Where I do agree with you is on a point that's largely been lost: the motivation for DA going to Newcastle is as likely to be about working with the very best players as it is about financial enrichment.

I said in the first post I had no idea what he is on- I just plucked that figure out the air so it made sense to stick with it. He's probably on more like £1 million a year, I expect. Still nowhere near enough for someone like him to retire any time soon.

 

[schmunk]

Same. I also want a six pack. Not badly enough to get one.

Too lazy to walk to the offy?

 

[MJsGhost]

I don't really get why so many people can't understand this. If you got a £10K pay rise you wouldn't live exactly the same life but with an extra £10K a year in the bank, otherwise what's the point? I'm sure there is probably a number where it all becomes irrelevant, but I suspect that is far, far higher than £400K a year. Even Premier League footballers can't afford proper luxury yachts- until you get to Billionaire status there will always be something else to take you up a level. In fact once you get to be a Billionaire you start buying space rockets...

Maybe I'm abnormal (highly likely TBF), but I have had increases in income where I have kept exactly the same day-to-day lifestyle and channeled the extra £ into mortgage overpayments.

What's the point? A big step towards being mortgage-free and early retirement (in terms of a proper job anyway). I don't feel the need to buy more / consume more just because I can - it's not the path to happiness, but it IS the path to f|cking up our planet). I don't really get why so many people can't understand this.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Maybe I'm abnormal (highly likely TBF), but I have had increases in income where I have kept exactly the same day-to-day lifestyle and channeled the extra £ into mortgage overpayments.

What's the point? A big step towards being mortgage-free and early retirement (in terms of a proper job anyway). I don't feel the need to buy more / consume more just because I can - it's not the path to happiness, but it IS the path to f|cking up our planet). I don't really get why so many people can't understand this.

If you want to watch something to make your heart weep, I recommend (or rather don't if you see what I mean) "Inside Dubai: Playground of the rich". I sat through an entire episode and think I was slack jawed at the selfishness, the self-indulgence and the entire lack of humility the whle way through. "Earn more - spend more (and make sure people know you have spent it)" seemed to be the maxim.

 

[Commander]

Maybe I'm abnormal (highly likely TBF), but I have had increases in income where I have kept exactly the same day-to-day lifestyle and channeled the extra £ into mortgage overpayments.

What's the point? A big step towards being mortgage-free and early retirement (in terms of a proper job anyway). I don't feel the need to buy more / consume more just because I can - it's not the path to happiness, but it IS the path to f|cking up our planet). I don't really get why so many people can't understand this.

I have friends that both work full-time, both big earners, and both absolutely work themselves in to the ground so they can pay as much as possible into their mortgage. I just don't get it. They might be dead by the time it's paid off. I'd rather use any extra capital to enjoy my life more NOW with extra or better holidays, more fun, and more experiences for my kids. The mortgage is on a set term, I don't really understand why lots of people are so set on paying it off early, when you might not even live to see it. I do wonder what my friends will do the day they pay theirs off. My suspicion is that their life won't actually change a bit, and that actually it might dawn on them that they've missed out on a lot of enjoyment throughout their adult lives by having this rather strange (in my opinion) goal, that didn't really change anything once it was achieved. There's no way they are just going to give up their jobs and relax. I really cannot see that anyone on their death bed ever says "I wish I'd paid my mortgage off earlier".

I'm not saying that's what you're doing by the way, just that I know a few people who seem to have that attitude.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Sadly, though, there are still huge double-standards in Britain today, which means sneering at the less well-off and blaming the poor for their poverty (rather than the employers or companies which pay poverty wages), while drooling over the mega-rich.

When Marcus Rashford was promoting his free school meals campaign for kids in low-income households, the online comments of Right-wing newspapers like the Daily Mail and Telegraph were full of vicious bile and vitriol about "not having kids if you can't afford to feed them" - totally oblivious to the fact that most people can afford their kids when they start their family, but then years later, tragedy strikes: redundancy (no more jobs-for-life that many of today's pensioners enjoyed), serious long-term illness, partner who's a police office or soldier killed 'in the line of duty', main breadwinner gets killed in fatal car crash or hit by a drunk-driver, employer cuts staff wages and salaries to stay in business, women who have had to flee men who became violent or alcoholic, etc.

But the average Mail reader is generally as arrogant as they are ignorant, and certainly lacks emotional intelligence, empathy or the ability to sympathise with those worse-off than themselves: they don't do "there for the grace of God go I". To them, all working-class people struggling to make ends meet (through no fault of their own) are like the characters they see on Little Britain or Benefits Street - every lone parent or unmarried mother is a Vicky Pollard who's had 10 kids by 10 different fathers.

Yet these same vindictive, anti-poor, Right-wingers will become drooling bleeding-heart liberals if a rich person complains about their 'hardship' - "Oh, that lovely business tycoon is struggling to afford Tarquin's £43,000 per year Eton fees", or "Oh, poor Jocasta had to sell her pony and give up her violin lessons, because mummy and daddy's business collapsed. It's terrible, the Government should really do more to help these lovely people, perhaps by cutting their taxes."

In terms of attitudes and morality, we haven't really changed much or progressed since the 19th Century; society still looks up admiringly to the rich (regardless of how greedy or corrupt they are, how badly they treat their workers, or how much they avoid paying their taxes), while the poor are still looked down upon as trash and blamed for being poor, even when their poverty is due to low wages paid by billionaire employers. We have millions of working-class people who idolise Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, even though these public-school-educated toffs look down their noses at the working class (Johnson described working class men as 'drunken layabouts" and Liz Truss - tipped to replace Johnson this year - is among a group of prominent Tories who claimed, in 2012 or 2013, that British workers were among the laziest in the world - she wants to further reduce employment protection and make it even easier to sack workers, in the name of 'labour market flexibility').

The fact is that millions of ordinary people do work hard - they have to in order to avoid being sacked or hopefully be spared in their firm's next round of redundancies - but it doesn't make any difference; they are still paid the same wage or salary, while their employer gets a huge pay rise and a bonus, and the shareholders share £ millions in dividends.

So, as a business owner when should I reap the reward, or shouldn't I?

Strangely when you invest say £250k in starting a business and it fails nobody is really that bothered, and, not likely at all to feel sorry for you and give you some cash back.

Most new business owners that employ staff have to pay them, rightly, the going rate for their role whilst not paying themselves, as there's not enough in the pot.

So, at some point the business owner pays themselves the going rate for running that company and they're wrong to be paid more than the people they employ? In fact in some businesses they never catch up with the developers etc they employ, but need these skills.

It's easy to criticise entrepreneurs, but without them there would be limited product creation, limited job creation, miniscule competition and limited innovation in this country. Oh, and some are noted for their philanthropy, when I say some I mean MANY.

 

[Commander]

So, as a business owner when should I reap the reward, or shouldn't I?

Strangely when you invest say £250k in starting a business and it fails nobody is really that bothered, and, not likely at all to feel sorry for you and give you some cash back.

Most new business owners that employ staff have to pay them, rightly, the going rate for their role whilst not paying themselves, as there's not enough in the pot.

So, at some point the business owner pays themselves the going rate for running that company and they're wrong to be paid more than the people they employ? In fact in some businesses they never catch up with the developers etc they employ, but need these skills.

It's easy to criticise entrepreneurs, but without them there would be limited product creation, limited job creation, miniscule competition and limited innovation in this country. Oh, and some are noted for their philanthropy, when I say some I mean MANY.

Exactly right. The post you quoted is just bitterness personified.

Yet these same vindictive, anti-poor, Right-wingers will become drooling bleeding-heart liberals if a rich person complains about their 'hardship' - "Oh, that lovely business tycoon is struggling to afford Tarquin's £43,000 per year Eton fees", or "Oh, poor Jocasta had to sell her pony and give up her violin lessons, because mummy and daddy's business collapsed. It's terrible, the Government should really do more to help these lovely people, perhaps by cutting their taxes."

I mean, seriously. Embarrassing.

 

[MJsGhost]

I have friends that both work full-time, both big earners, and both absolutely work themselves in to the ground so they can pay as much as possible into their mortgage. I just don't get it. They might be dead by the time it's paid off. I'd rather use any extra capital to enjoy my life more NOW with extra or better holidays, more fun, and more experiences for my kids. The mortgage is on a set term, I don't really understand why lots of people are so set on paying it off early, when you might not even live to see it. I do wonder what my friends will do the day they pay theirs off. My suspicion is that their life won't actually change a bit, and that actually it might dawn on them that they've missed out on a lot of enjoyment throughout their adult lives by having this rather strange (in my opinion) goal, that didn't really change anything once it was achieved. There's no way they are just going to give up their jobs and relax. I really cannot see that anyone on their death bed ever says "I wish I'd paid my mortgage off earlier".

I'm not saying that's what you're doing by the way, just that I know a few people who seem to have that attitude.

It's about balance. The extra goes off the mortgage because we've got a lifestyle we are very happy with - fewer holidays abroad these days because the penny dropped about climate change, but UK holidays (as many are finding thanks to covid) can be just as good. I don't feel we miss out on enjoyment of life just to slavishly pay off the mortgage, but then I'm lucky enough to be an above-average earner, but with no desire to move in social circles where money is splashed around.

As you said above, there's got to be a number for most, where more money is irrelevant. I would certainly take issue with your idea that it's definitely more than £400k, but that number is going to be different for everyone as it's based on their attitude to money and belief system.

 

[drew]

Maybe I'm abnormal (highly likely TBF), but I have had increases in income where I have kept exactly the same day-to-day lifestyle and channeled the extra £ into mortgage overpayments.

What's the point? A big step towards being mortgage-free and early retirement (in terms of a proper job anyway). I don't feel the need to buy more / consume more just because I can - it's not the path to happiness, but it IS the path to f|cking up our planet). I don't really get why so many people can't understand this.

I think the point is that in reality you have used the extra money to improve your expected way of life in the future. What would you do if you had a windfall that fully paid of your mortgage. Would you take slightly better holidays, maybe several times a year. Get a slightly better car or maybe get a slightly bigger house or buy better presents for your kids/family/friends. Maybe you'll get better seats when you go to the theatre or eat at slightly better restaurants.

 

[B-right-on]

So, as a business owner when should I reap the reward, or shouldn't I?

Strangely when you invest say £250k in starting a business and it fails nobody is really that bothered, and, not likely at all to feel sorry for you and give you some cash back.

Most new business owners that employ staff have to pay them, rightly, the going rate for their role whilst not paying themselves, as there's not enough in the pot.

So, at some point the business owner pays themselves the going rate for running that company and they're wrong to be paid more than the people they employ? In fact in some businesses they never catch up with the developers etc they employ, but need these skills.

It's easy to criticise entrepreneurs, but without them there would be limited product creation, limited job creation, miniscule competition and limited innovation in this country. Oh, and some are noted for their philanthropy, when I say some I mean MANY.

Sorry but you're not going to get any agreement from those that can't, don't or won't take the gamble to risk everything to start up their own business. Or the left wing anti capitalists that frequent this board.

I have a mate who I worked with 25 years ago. He left to set up his own business. I remember speaking with him then and he had no money. What little he had he spent on fags and promotion for his business. When I say no money, I literally mean he lived in a shitty room in a run down house share and would only have one meal a day of utter cheap crap.

He's now worth millions and is one of the nicest blokes you'll ever meet. Yes he's driven, very hard working, incredibly successful and some would say 'lucky'. He recently donated several hundred thousand pounds to a mental health charity he's intimately involved with.

He employs probably a few hundred people across his businesses, all paid decently. How much does he contribute to the society? A hell of a lot more than me and many others.

 

[MJsGhost]

If you want to watch something to make your heart weep, I recommend (or rather don't if you see what I mean) "Inside Dubai: Playground of the rich". I sat through an entire episode and think I was slack jawed at the selfishness, the self-indulgence and the entire lack of humility the whle way through. "Earn more - spend more (and make sure people know you have spent it)" seemed to be the maxim.

You've got me spot on there. It would make my blood boil and my heart weep. I was taken to Dubai for a weekend work jolly in 2002 - I couldn't stand the place then and I can't imagine it has improved!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sorry but you're not going to get any agreement from those that can't, don't or won't take the gamble to risk everything to start up their own business. Or the left wing anti capitalists that frequent this board.

I have a mate who I worked with 25 years ago. He left to set up his own business. I remember speaking with him then and he had no money. What little he had he spent on fags and promotion for his business. When I say no money, I literally mean he lived in a shitty room in a run down house share and would only have one meal a day of utter cheap crap.

He's now worth millions and is one of the nicest blokes you'll ever meet. Yes he's driven, very hard working, incredibly successful and some would say 'lucky'. He recently donated several hundred thousand pounds to a mental health charity he's intimately involved with.

He employs probably a few hundred people across his businesses, all paid decently. How much does he contribute to the society? A hell of a lot more than me and many others.

Good post. Without job creation there would be no jobs. It is a multi layered system that needs innovation and risk taking as much as it needs workers. The penny tends to drop about this as people get older.